[helene_t]

1♠-(2♦)-X-(pass)
3♠

[jdonn]

Non forcing seems obvious to me and I would assume it with anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised at the end of the day to find out a few random people play it as forcing.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

never though about it.

In the given seuence, 3S should show the
same strength as in an unconteted auction,
if you require a reasonaable min. strength
for making the neg. X, say 8/9HCP or more,
this would imply that 3S is forcing.

But my first reaction was nonforcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[han]

NF

[han]

yup

[awm]

I'm sure it's normal to play it as NF.

On the other hand, I do know some bridge teachers who teach that you need something like a good 10-count for a negative double at the two-level (obviously this is not modern expert standard, but some people are teaching it). In this case it seems to make sense that 3♠ would be forcing, since there's not much of a range where you have "extras for the opening bid" (obviously 3♠ shows extras, you could've bid 2♠) but not enough to GF.

[foo]

IMHO the best answer to what 1S-(2D)-X-pa;3S shows depends on what

1S-(2D)-X-pa;2S shows and
what the requirements are for GOP's Negative X.

Clearly we want to be able to rebid 2S on any minimum with 6+S.
Equally clearly, we do not want to force the auction to the 3+ level unless We rate to have the values for it.

However, as the requirements for the Neg X go up, the range of hands that would want to jump rebid 3S nf shrinks. At some point, it no longer makes sense to reserve the sequence for such a small possible set of hand types and it becomes better to make the 3S jump rebid Forcing.

Let's say the Neg X promises 8+ HCP.
We need a ~15 point hand for Us to expect safety at the 3 level.
We need a ~17 point hand for Us to belong in game.
Thus a 3S jump rebid that is nf has to show ~15-16 points.
A nice tight invitational range.

Now let's say a Neg X promises 9+ HCP
We need a ~14 point hand to for Us to expect safety at the 3 level.
We need a ~16 point hand for Us to belong in game.
Clearly 3S nf no longer makes much sense and the 3S jump rebid should be Forcing under this system.

Pick your poison.

[whereagles]

Usually this is 15-17 (more or less), so with pd's dbl, it becomes 13-15, i.e. a good min with solid suit.

E.g. its NF

[jtfanclub]

Jlall, on Dec 22 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

If X promised 8+ I would be happy I could bid 3S on a hand like AQJxxx Axx x QJT

One possibility is that the X'er has very few or no spades, diamonds and no diamond stop, but some points in the other two suits. It may be that 4♥ or 5♣ has play, but considering how much space has been lost by the 3♠ bid I'm not sure that you can find out in time.

Doesn't fit matter more than a point or two? I wouldn't mind the bid being forcing whenever responder has 2+ spades, but I really don't like my odds if I have a 8-9 hcp 1-4-4-4 or 0-4-4-5 with no true diamond stop, even if we have 25hcp between us.

[mikeh]

jdonn, on Dec 22 2007, 01:12 PM, said:

Non forcing seems obvious to me and I would assume it with anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised at the end of the day to find out a few random people play it as forcing.

agreed

[Fluffy]

agree also

[highhighhi]

3♦ would be GF, therefore 3♠ would be NF.