Help
J9x
AQJ
AJx
Axxx
team game, 3rd seat.
upgrade?
#1
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2007-December-19, 15:49
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#2
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Posted 2007-December-19, 15:51
Assuming 1NT is 15-17, bidding 1NT is clearcut.
You are 3334, you have three jacks, you have only one useful spot card. This seems like a rather below-average 17-count. If this is 1♣...2NT then you're playing a 14-16 1NT opening.
You are 3334, you have three jacks, you have only one useful spot card. This seems like a rather below-average 17-count. If this is 1♣...2NT then you're playing a 14-16 1NT opening.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#3
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Posted 2007-December-19, 15:54
The 3 aces are nice but the hand sucks otherwise. 4333 and 3 jacks are negatives.
Clear 1N opener.
Clear 1N opener.
"Phil" on BBO
#4
- - - T98765432 AQT8
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Posted 2007-December-19, 15:57
Upgrade? This is nearly a downgrade into 14-16 if that were your range...
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#5
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Posted 2007-December-19, 16:14
I am (I like to think) an aggressive upgrader of notrump hands, but I am 100% with the others on this: it is not even a good 17.
While I am not much of a point counter (in terms of adjusting point count), 4333 usually plays a point shy of 4432 or 5332, and Jacks are notoriously overvalued in the 4321 count.
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that I'd open 1N in a 14-16 method... mostly because I downgrade less often, and less radically, than I upgrade, but I understand josh's comment, and it is far closer to the mark (afaiac)than considering this an upgrade beyond 15-17.
Edit: I note that josh said 'nearly', so I actually agree 100% with him
While I am not much of a point counter (in terms of adjusting point count), 4333 usually plays a point shy of 4432 or 5332, and Jacks are notoriously overvalued in the 4321 count.
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say that I'd open 1N in a 14-16 method... mostly because I downgrade less often, and less radically, than I upgrade, but I understand josh's comment, and it is far closer to the mark (afaiac)than considering this an upgrade beyond 15-17.
Edit: I note that josh said 'nearly', so I actually agree 100% with him
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#6
- Deipnosophist
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Posted 2007-December-19, 16:19
I guess I'd only add to the above comments that AQJ isn't pleasant either. I tend to downgrade tight honors.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#7
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Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2007-December-19, 16:46
Run-of-the-mill 15-17 HCP 1NT opener.
Nothing remarkable about it.
Nothing remarkable about it.
#8
- Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
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Posted 2007-December-19, 17:27
I would not upgrade.
However, I would open 1♣ in third seat because I play 1NT as 14-16 in third seat.
However, I would open 1♣ in third seat because I play 1NT as 14-16 in third seat.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#9
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Posted 2007-December-20, 01:58
I guess Csaba is playing a 13-15 range, because I cannot understand his question if he does not. I would happily open 1 NT with a 14-16 NT. This hand sucks.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#10
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Posted 2007-December-20, 03:06
1 NT, not even close.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#11
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Posted 2007-December-20, 04:55
1NT. I fail to see where's the problem.
#12
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Posted 2007-December-20, 06:16
I'm don't downgrade. Opens 1NT.
Distribution 4333 is actual for NT open and ♠J, ♦J and ♥AQJ values is maybe good 60%, maybe poor 40%.
Distribution 4333 is actual for NT open and ♠J, ♦J and ♥AQJ values is maybe good 60%, maybe poor 40%.
Pass is my lovely bid!
#13
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Posted 2007-December-20, 07:40
If you're into that sort of thing, Kaplan and Rubens hand evaluator says this is a 15.75, so it looks like those of you who open this a 14-16NT have something going for you.
Also, I was just playing around with it, trying to find the trashiest 17-count possible according to K&R.
KQJ KQx QJx QJxx
Evaluates to 13.40!
So the next time you pick up this 17-count, you might want to consider opening a 12-14NT
.
Also, I was just playing around with it, trying to find the trashiest 17-count possible according to K&R.
KQJ KQx QJx QJxx
Evaluates to 13.40!
So the next time you pick up this 17-count, you might want to consider opening a 12-14NT
.
#14
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Posted 2007-December-20, 09:28
jdonn, on Dec 19 2007, 04:57 PM, said:
Upgrade? This is nearly a downgrade into 14-16 if that were your range...
exactly
#15
- World International Master without a clue
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Posted 2007-December-20, 09:38
0-31-0 votes, is it a new record?
What kind of upgrade were you thinking about Csaba?
What kind of upgrade were you thinking about Csaba?
#16
- Under bidder
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Posted 2007-December-20, 09:54
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#17
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Posted 2007-December-20, 18:50
Would open 1NT even if I had the nine of clubs as well as the nine of spades.
However, recent research leads to the conclusion that (contrary to popular belief) 4-3-3-3 shapes actually play rather better in no trumps at the partscore or game level than 4-4-3-2 shapes with the same honour structure. The main reasons for this are:
if partner has a five-card suit, you will have a three-card fit for it, making it easier to establish;
even if partner does not have a five-card suit, then as long as he has a different four-card suit from yours, you will have (at least) two 4-3 fits either (or any) of which might break 3-3 and provide some extra tricks;
if partner does not have a singleton (when you probably won't play in no trumps anyway), the opponents won't have a nine-card fit, so that even if they lead your weak suit, it might break 4-4.
So maybe I should upgrade this hand because it's 4-3-3-3. I still won't, though, if it's all the same to you.
However, recent research leads to the conclusion that (contrary to popular belief) 4-3-3-3 shapes actually play rather better in no trumps at the partscore or game level than 4-4-3-2 shapes with the same honour structure. The main reasons for this are:
if partner has a five-card suit, you will have a three-card fit for it, making it easier to establish;
even if partner does not have a five-card suit, then as long as he has a different four-card suit from yours, you will have (at least) two 4-3 fits either (or any) of which might break 3-3 and provide some extra tricks;
if partner does not have a singleton (when you probably won't play in no trumps anyway), the opponents won't have a nine-card fit, so that even if they lead your weak suit, it might break 4-4.
So maybe I should upgrade this hand because it's 4-3-3-3. I still won't, though, if it's all the same to you.
When Senators have had their sport
And sealed the Law by vote,
It little matters what they thought -
We hang for what they wrote.
And sealed the Law by vote,
It little matters what they thought -
We hang for what they wrote.
#18
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Posted 2007-December-20, 19:20
Bass ackwards! This hand is near totally up/down based on what partner has and pollers are blocking partner's 1-level bid with 1NT ??? Open 1C! Decide next.
#19
- - - T98765432 AQT8
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Posted 2007-December-20, 19:28
dake50, on Dec 20 2007, 08:20 PM, said:
Bass ackwards! This hand is near totally up/down based on what partner has and pollers are blocking partner's 1-level bid with 1NT ??? Open 1C! Decide next.
Decide what next? Whether to overbid 2NT by a point or underbid 1NT by three points depending what partner responds??
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#20
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Posted 2007-December-20, 19:32
Hannie, on Dec 20 2007, 09:54 AM, said:
This link doesn't work (at least here) If you have time, please post the hand in question.
Thx .. neilkaz ..