[Apollo81]

Favorable.

♠3
♥J10876
♦J972
♣K63

(1♠)-Dbl-(3♠)*-4♥
(4♠)-Dbl-(pass)-??

*weak

I deliberately didn't specify the form of scoring. State it in your post if you think it matters. State if you disagree with the 4♥ bid.

edit: if you didn't bid 4♥ then it went (4♠)-pass-(pass) Do you act now?

This post has been edited by Apollo81: 2007-December-18, 15:37

[Fluffy]

I can't pass and wait partner to show his strong hand before?

Oh well pass now.

[han]

I disagree with the 4H bid.

I would pass now.

[whereagles]

4♥ is risky, but acceptable, because if we pass pard might not want to dbl again over 3♠ without considerable extras. The risk is that pard plays us for some values we don't have (that's what happened). Still, pass the dbl and hope we can beat this.

[bhall]

I also don't like 4♥ at any form of scoring. However, I have to respect partner's double now. Since 4♥ could certainly be bidding down 1 vs. a making 3S, we would not be in a forcing pass situation if partner passed 4♠. Therefore, his double says that he expects them to fail.

Partner should be aware that you are likely to have excess length in ♥, so he won't be counting on two defensive tricks in that suit. Your ♣K and ♦J9 are probably enough to expect that they will go down.

[MickyB]

4♥ before looks a little much. Anything other than pass now is crazy.

[neilkaz]

4♥ is pushy the first time, I would've passed but don't hate 4♥.

Now I have to pass and hope my K of ♣ aids in a sucessful defence.

[inquiry]

4♥ is not something i would have bid.

[foo]

Apollo81, on Dec 18 2007, 02:28 PM, said:

Favorable.

♠3 ♥JT876 ♦J972 ♣K63

(1♠)-Dbl-(3♠)*-4♥
(4♠)-Dbl-(pass)-??

*weak

I deliberately didn't specify the form of scoring. State it in your post if you think it matters. State if you disagree with the 4♥ bid.

edit: if you didn't bid 4♥ then it went (4♠)-pass-(pass) Do you act now?

GOP's T/O X usually shows a 6-7 loser hand with 4 ♥'s.

You've jumped to Game with a 9 loser hand opposite what it very likely a 6-7 loser hand. Even if you lose no ♥'s, you are playing GOP to be able to cover 3 of your 6 side suit losers.
In short, 4H is pushy.

Not outrageous, but definitely pushy.

The problem with pushy bids is that sometimes CHO takes us seriously. Like now when they X for penalty expecting you to contibute to the defense with some of the "hard values" GOP is assuming you have for your bidding.

You are now stuck. Figure out which course is likely to cost less- 4SX making or 5HX going down, and take action accordingly.

Then buy long suffering partner a drink or dinner depending on the degree to which you must apologize to make things right.

[ArtK78]

foo, on Dec 19 2007, 02:26 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Dec 18 2007, 02:28 PM, said:

Favorable.

♠3 ♥JT876 ♦J972 ♣K63

(1♠)-Dbl-(3♠)*-4♥
(4♠)-Dbl-(pass)-??

*weak

I deliberately didn't specify the form of scoring.  State it in your post if you think it matters.  State if you disagree with the 4♥ bid.

edit: if you didn't bid 4♥ then it went (4♠)-pass-(pass) Do you act now?

GOP's T/O X usually shows a 6-7 loser hand with 4 ♥'s.

You've jumped to Game with a 9 loser hand opposite what it very likely a 6-7 loser hand. Even if you lose no ♥'s, you are playing GOP to be able to cover 3 of your 6 side suit losers.
In short, 4H is pushy.

Not outrageous, but definitely pushy.

The problem with pushy bids is that sometimes CHO takes us seriously. Like now when they X for penalty expecting you to contibute to the defense with some of the "hard values" GOP is assuming you have for your bidding.

You are now stuck. Figure out which course is likely to cost less- 4SX making or 5HX going down, and take action accordingly.

Then buy long suffering partner a drink or dinner depending on the degree to which you must apologize to make things right.

Don't you hate it when partner's believe your bidding?

[whereagles]

ArtK78, on Dec 19 2007, 07:35 PM, said:

Don't you hate it when partner's believe your bidding?

Indeed. Why should he listen to his 1 pard when there's 2 opps he can trust????

[Apollo81]

foo, on Dec 19 2007, 02:26 PM, said:

You've jumped to Game with a 9 loser hand opposite what it very likely a 6-7 loser hand.

4♥ over 3♠ isn't a jump.


No one's answered the second part of the post yet. If you had passed initially, would you act over 4♠pp ?

[whereagles]

Apollo81, on Dec 19 2007, 08:45 PM, said:

...second part of the post yet. If you had passed initially, would you act over 4♠pp ?

no

[awm]

I think the 4♥ bid is okay. A bit pushy, but it looks like the opponents have a big spade fit and we have a big heart fit, and I want partner to know to bid 5♥ when it's right.

Having bid 4♥, I will pass partner's double. The double is likely to include only three-card support for hearts and/or some spade wastage as well as extras. With a minimum partner probably passes (I don't think this is a forcing auction by the way). With four hearts and nothing in spades and extras, partner probably can figure out to bid 5♥. I think his double is in part warning me not to bid on if I've bid 4♥ on junk like this.

If I had passed 3♠ and 4♠ was passed to me I would pass.

If I had passed 3♠ and partner doubled 4♠ (which just shows extras in this auction, not particularly suggesting to defend) then I would bid 5♥.

[Fluffy]

Apollo81, on Dec 19 2007, 08:45 PM, said:

No one's answered the second part of the post yet.  If you had passed initially, would you act over 4♠pp ?

I would pass, but its closer than bidding 4♥ before.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4H is ok, depends a little bit on
partnership style, but my partner
would do it, and he would not
expect more.
And 4H did not promise a a defencive
trick,
And because of this, I pass 4S.

As always, you cant answer those
questions without knowing your
partners tendencies.

But 5H is a long way to go, and
X of 4S is penalty, at least it says,
partner dont (!) bid 5H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Apollo81, on Dec 19 2007, 03:45 PM, said:

foo, on Dec 19 2007, 02:26 PM, said:

You've jumped to Game with a 9 loser hand opposite what it very likely a 6-7 loser hand.

4♥ over 3♠ isn't a jump.


No one's answered the second part of the post yet. If you had passed initially, would you act over 4♠pp ?

Maybe / maybe not, having passed the first
time, partners 2nd double is still heavilly t/o
oriented, although partner has to expect,
that it gets passed out.
He could have bid 4NT instead, as long, as
4NT is aan agreed bid.

Playing IMPs with a partner, who strains to act,
and being green vs. red I most likely would bid
5H, because we will have at least a 9 card fit,
which is not 100% clear in the other situation.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[benlessard]

I would have passed instead of 4H

after 4S X I pass.

without an initial 4H i would have save at 5H

One thing is sure i would have thought of what to do after 4S X before bidding 4H. Bidding 4H without knowing what to do after 4S X is a bit inconsequent.