[ArtK78]

kfay, on Dec 12 2007, 10:59 AM, said:

I bid a confident 4♥.  What is partner thinking when they hear that and are staring at this giant:

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠   ♥ Qx ♦ AKQ109xx ♣ AKxx

That is why your hand is not a 4♥ bid. Partner, holding his moose, is going to bid slam (and possibly try for a grand). Of course, on a spade lead, he might actually make 6♦. But that is not the point.

I am not going to criticize partner's double, whether I agree with it or not. Suffice to say I have some sympathy for the double.

[jdonn]

I think 2♥ is right. You can simply treat your hand as a maximum after that. 4♥ is hyperactive - if you bid 3 and partner passed wouldn't you think you are high enough?

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Dec 12 2007, 08:41 AM, said:

I think 2♥ is right. You can simply treat your hand as a maximum after that. 4♥ is hyperactive - if you bid 3 and partner passed wouldn't you think you are high enough?

Yeah 4♥ is a bit too much. The black suits don't seem to match the bidding, so something seems amiss. Move things around some, and I'd try 4♥.

3♥ misdescribes. I'd want two more honors and one less heart.

[bid_em_up]

4♥, wtp?

[mike777]

kfay, on Dec 12 2007, 10:59 AM, said:

I bid a confident 4♥.  What is partner thinking when they hear that and are staring at this giant:


<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> ????? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> Unknown </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Qx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AKQ109xx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> AKxx </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

I would pass 4H ...partner did not cuebid, he does not have a constructive hand. Yes I might miss slam but 4H might be down also and 5H might be down.

Just another example of Bergen's rule, assuming the opponents open standard one bids in first or second seat, give up on slam.

[finally17]

Honestly, nothing but 4 gets any real consideration from me. Anything less and I'm going to get outbid to a making 2/3 spades, whereas even if 4H is going down (be honest, it has very reasonable chances unless I need to find a new partner) it's going to score better than the alternative. The immediate jump to 4 also gives partner fine opportunity to evaluate the situation (screams: PARTNER I HAVE JUNK) when opps outbid me to 4S.

[neilkaz]

4♥ for me in response to the take out double and this implies distribution rather than a fist full of high cards on an action like this.

[the hog]

2H followed by 3H. Seems obvious to me. I play 3H as pre emptive, but the H suit is not good enough for that imo.

[mike777]

The_Hog, on Dec 13 2007, 07:22 PM, said:

2H followed by 3H. Seems obvious to me. I play 3H as pre emptive, but the H suit is not good enough for that imo.

Wow these votes for free bid of 2H over 2c really surprise me. I got 6 hearts yes?

[jdonn]

mike777, on Dec 13 2007, 09:48 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Dec 13 2007, 07:22 PM, said:

2H followed by 3H. Seems obvious to me. I play 3H as pre emptive, but the H suit is not good enough for that imo.

Wow these votes for free bid of 2H over 2c really surprise me. I got 6 hearts yes?

Sorry I missed the memo that 2♥ denies a six card suit.

I got 4 points for my freebid, yes?

[nige1]

kfay, on Dec 12 2007, 02:00 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(1♠)-_X-(2♣)-??

---

IMO 3♥=10, 4♥=8, 2♥=4, _P=1
I confess I might bid 4♥ at the table but Jdonn convinces me that it's an overbid.

kfay, on Dec 12 2007, 10:59 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠   ♥ Qx ♦ AKQT9xx ♣ AKxx

(1♠)-_X-(2♣)-4♥(_P)-??

IMO 6♦=10, 5♦=8, 5♥=4, _P=1
I give winning actions low marks just to show that I'm not a result merchant

[gwnn]

So Josh convinced you that 4♥ is too much, but he was not adequately persuasive as to why 3♥ is not a good bid?

[ArtK78]

Nigel:

What you are saying is that you believe that 3♥ and 4♥ are the top actions on the long heart hand. And, opposite a 4♥ call, the long diamond hand should bid slam.

Given that there are two top losers, this is not the most convincing argument that I have ever seen.

I admit that if my partner bid 4♥, I would probably get to slam on the big hand, too. But that merely shows why the 4♥ call is wrong.

I stick by my choice of bidding 2♥ with the long heart hand.

[ArcLight]

LHO has 5+ spades
Pard has a spade void.
RHO doesn't bid spades?
We have 3.

Where are the spades, what is going on with the opponents bidding?
Spades are: 6-4? Then why the 2♣ bid (which doesnt show a good hand over a DBL) rather than bidding spades or redoubling? Jordan 2NT is available.

Spades are 7-3? ReDbl then bid spades.

Spades are 8-2?

[helene_t]

gwnn, on Dec 12 2007, 06:07 PM, said:

that hand is much too strong for 3♠ and just strong enough for X+diamonds.

Why? If it had been much weaker you would just have overcalled 2♦, wouldn't you? I think the jumpcue should be reserved for hands that are too strong for a simple overcall an not flexible enough for a double.

[jtfanclub]

nige1, on Dec 14 2007, 08:51 AM, said:

kfay, on Dec 12 2007, 02:00 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(1♠)-_X-(2♣)-??

---

IMO 3♥=10, 4♥=8, 2♥=4, _P=1
I confess I might bid 4♥ at the table but Jdonn convinces me that it's an overbid.

Ew.

I don't know if it's a 2♥ bid or a 4♥ bid, but a 3♥ bid is not a a hand that's too strong for 2♥ and too weak for 4♥. It shows a completely different hand, at least on the planet I play on.

Assuming that 2♣ is nonforcing over an X, I would expect 3♥ to be a 10 count with 4 hearts.

[gwnn]

helene_t, on Dec 14 2007, 06:43 PM, said:

gwnn, on Dec 12 2007, 06:07 PM, said:

that hand is much too strong for 3♠ and just strong enough for X+diamonds.

Why? If it had been much weaker you would just have overcalled 2♦, wouldn't you? I think the jumpcue should be reserved for hands that are too strong for a simple overcall an not flexible enough for a double.

A minimum 3♠ should look something like

x
QTx
AKJxxxx
Kx

Or even less, if you don't mind having semi-stops (JTx in hearts anyone?). The maximum should be a hand that knows for sure that slam is not on under normal circumstances. The hand in question certainly does not conform to this criterion - almost every hand without a void in ♦ and ♥K and ♣Q (5hcp!!!!!!!) will produce very good chances for 12 tricks.

That said, I'm not very much into this thing. I just happen to think there are hands that warrant the jump cue by giving enough combined chances from a) reaching a makable, otherwise unreachable 3NT and b) preemptive reasons without being too strong for a two level overcall.