[mike777]

What is the best way to play the following for 3 tricks and why?

AT72

Q85

[dburn]

Not sure what this is doing in the Beginner and Intermediate forum, especially given that far simpler combinations are regularly messed up by certain people in the Advanced and Expert forum.

This is a particularly difficult combination to analyse, and rather than give the answer (which would run to several paragraphs and not be suitable for beginners) I will ask a series of intermediate questions which will, I hope, clarify some of the issues for non-experts.

First, suppose that you play low from North and East plays the king. When you cash the queen, East plays the nine. Should you play to the ten next or the ace?

Second, suppose that you play low from North, East plays the jack, and West takes the queen with the king. You lead the eight to the ace next to confirm that the jack was a singleton, but it wasn't - East plays the six. Should you play to the seven next or the ten?

[mike777]

ty for your reply, I do not know the answer to your questions or this combo? Anyone?

[Halo]

Despite the intermediates I would intend the normal policy of small to the Queen and back to the Ace if the Queen holds.

[dburn]

Halo, on Dec 11 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

Despite the intermediates I would intend the normal policy of small to the Queen and back to the Ace if the Queen holds.

That's not the normal policy. Instead, you should play small to the ten if the queen holds.

[Halo]

dburn, on Dec 11 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

Halo, on Dec 11 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

Despite the intermediates I would intend the normal policy of small to the Queen and  back to the Ace if the Queen holds.

That's not the normal policy. Instead, you should play small to the ten if the queen holds.

I'm surprised David. Doesn't finessing lose two tricks to Kx on the right?

[dburn]

Halo, on Dec 12 2007, 06:02 AM, said:

dburn, on Dec 11 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

Halo, on Dec 11 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

Despite the intermediates I would intend the normal policy of small to the Queen and  back to the Ace if the Queen holds.

That's not the normal policy. Instead, you should play small to the ten if the queen holds.

I'm surprised David. Doesn't finessing lose two tricks to Kx on the right?

It does, but standard operating procedure for an East with Kx is to put up the king. You will - or at least you should - next cash the queen and the ace, thus losing two tricks anyway (East is slightly more likely to have started with KJx than with Kx - the a priori probabilities are about 5.33% for KJx and 4.84% for Kx).

The reason you should play to the ten when the queen holds is that West with KJxx should duck the queen. You will doubtless tell me that you never play against opponents who defend like that, and it is certainly true that you should take into account the standard of your opponents and the likely state of their knowledge of your holding when playing any suit combination.

When we are asked "what is the correct play with a particular combination?" we assume that the defenders are playing optimally with full knowledge of declarer's holding. At the table, of course, this is often not the case.

[Halo]

OK David, these excellent defenders have increased my enjoyment of the game. Now I wonder if I was wrong to disregard my intermediates after all.

Maybe I should just play West for two or three of KJ9 - finesse all the way. Probably not quite optimal, but looks maybe good odds versus treating 87 as xx.

[goobers]

dburn, on Dec 12 2007, 06:47 AM, said:

The reason you should play to the ten when the queen holds is that West with KJxx should duck the queen. You will doubtless tell me that you never play against opponents who defend like that, and it is certainly true that you should take into account the standard of your opponents and the likely state of their knowledge of your holding when playing any suit combination.

I don't understand this part. What does West gain by ducking the Q? Doesn't declarer then make 2 tricks anyway?

[dburn]

Halo, on Dec 12 2007, 09:40 AM, said:

OK David, these excellent defenders have increased my enjoyment of the game.  Now I wonder if I was wrong to disregard my intermediates after all.

Maybe I should just play West for two or three of KJ9 - finesse all the way. Probably not quite optimal, but looks maybe good odds versus treating 87 as xx.

That is certainly the best line for three tricks with

A1072

Q86

or at any rate it is best to start that combination by leading the queen - if it is covered by the king, win the ace and run the six; if it loses to the king, lead to the ten next.

With

A1072

Q83

it is best to lead low to the queen. Whether that holds or loses to the king, lead to the ten next unless you believe that West will not duck the queen from KJxx.

As I remarked, though, this

A1072

Q85

is a particularly difficult combination to analyse. It breaks Suitplay, the program written by Jeroen Warmerdam of the Netherlands, which runs out of memory before completing its analysis.

You may like to consider how you would play as East with J9 doubleton when declarer leads low from the dummy at trick one.

[Halo]

dburn, on Dec 12 2007, 10:53 AM, said:

You may like to consider how you would play as East with J9 doubleton when declarer leads low from the dummy at trick one.

First impression is that with Jx I will always win by playing the x, partner ducking from K9xx (since the earlier discussion established that declarer will finesse the ten into my Jack to cater for KJxx opposite xx). In fact whenever I have jack, no King and an x it looks right to play the x.

So what about J9. Looks like I have to play the nine and partner wins the King.

[whereagles]

AQT combos don't have any simple mnemonical rules. The correct procedure has to be checked in the book on a case-by-case basis.

[dburn]

goobers, on Dec 12 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

dburn, on Dec 12 2007, 06:47 AM, said:

The reason you should play to the ten when the queen holds is that West with KJxx should duck the queen. You will doubtless tell me that you never play against opponents who defend like that, and it is certainly true that you should take into account the standard of your opponents and the likely state of their knowledge of your holding when playing any suit combination.

I don't understand this part. What does West gain by ducking the Q? Doesn't declarer then make 2 tricks anyway?

He does, but the stated problem was how to play the suit for three tricks. If you have to play for two tricks only, it is better to start with the ace, then lead to the queen.

[mike777]

ty for responses
at the table, against me, the opp lead the Q and then the 8 for 3 tricks.

K9x was on the right.