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DBL

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-November-24, 19:35

1D-(1NT)-DBL-(RDBL)
P-(2C)-??

You DBL of 1NT was penalty.
RDBL of LHO was transfer to Clubs.
What do you prefer that DBL by you shows now:
- Partner I have clubs, pass with 2+ clubs
- Partner please pass, this is a pure penalty DBL, this goes down.
 
...Suppose you DBL. bidding continues:
1D-(1NT)-DBL-(RDBL)
P-(2C)-DBL-(P)
2H-(P)-???
(partner clearly has a singleton or void Clubs)

This post has been edited by kgr: 2007-November-27, 17:24

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#2 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-November-25, 02:21

Dbl 2♣ and 2NT now. Could pass 2♥, but we should have the tricks for 2NT.
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-November-25, 06:44

Dbl should certainly not be pure penalty. If it's penalty-oriented, something like this hand suffices. I can imagine playing dbl as t/o but I think standard is that once we've doubled for penalties, subsequent doubles are penalty as well.
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2007-November-25, 07:40

I play 2-3 Doubles here. In this case we're in a penalty auction over 1NT and opps are using their escape structure. I'd pass on 2♣, showing <2 or >3 ♣s (Dbl would show 2-3 ♣s). The rest of the auction depends on what happens...
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#5 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-November-25, 08:11

I'd never double 1NT with 12 cards only...are we missing a small club?
Kind regards,
Harald
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#6 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-November-26, 14:27

skaeran, on Nov 25 2007, 04:11 PM, said:

I'd never double 1NT with 12 cards only...are we missing a small club?

I missed a small ♦.
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#7 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2007-November-26, 14:31

whereagles, on Nov 25 2007, 03:21 AM, said:

Dbl 2♣ and 2NT now. Could pass 2♥, but we should have the tricks for 2NT.

Doesn't the scoring matter? I pass 2♥ like a shot in IMPs.
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#8 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2007-November-26, 14:33

1x-(1NT)-DBL-(2Y)
Pass-(Pass)-DBL
 
DBL over 1NT is penalty.
- My teammates told me it is clearest and best to play 2nd DBL as pure penalty. Partner should almost always pass that DBL. Your 2nd DBL should be a 5-card or a good 4 card.
- I tried to convince my team mates that it is better to play it as a 4-card. Penalty oriented, but not pure penalty. Partner passes with a doubleton and can run with a minimum hand and a singleton.
What is best? Hope you agree with me and help me convince my teammates :)
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#9 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2007-November-27, 01:37

Most of the time you prefer to have at least 6 trumps (both hands combined) for wanting to defend a 2X contract. With 5 trumps bidding game or a part-score is often best

So what do you think is more likely ?

case 1 you have a 5-6 cards suit with goodies and X 1Nt (pure penalty) and by magic the opponent fall back in my long suit and I X again (pure penalty) and the opps decide to pass despite knowing I have 5 or 6 trumps.


case 2 I have a balanced hand with 1 or 2 4cards suit and X 1Nt for penalty. The opps run into 1 of my 4 card suit I X again (penalty oriented optionnal) and partner with 2 little and a fair defensive hand decide to pass and the overcaller having no real choice and a balanced hand pass.


case 1-- after your X both opps can run
case 2---after your X LHO doesnt know if its right to run because its possible your partner has no intention of passing.

Also trumps break of 42,3-3 are more likely then 5-1 or 6-0
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#10 User is offline   foo 

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Posted 2007-November-27, 02:58

kgr, on Nov 26 2007, 03:27 PM, said:

skaeran, on Nov 25 2007, 04:11 PM, said:

I'd never double 1NT with 12 cards only...are we missing a small club?

I missed a small ♦.

Please edit the otiginal Post accordingly?
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-November-27, 12:22

jtfanclub, on Nov 26 2007, 08:31 PM, said:

whereagles, on Nov 25 2007, 03:21 AM, said:

Dbl 2♣ and 2NT now. Could pass 2♥, but we should have the tricks for 2NT.

Doesn't the scoring matter? I pass 2♥ like a shot in IMPs.

Well, this hand seems to be better for NT play than in hearts.
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2007-November-28, 01:33

kgr, on Nov 26 2007, 09:33 PM, said:

What is best? Hope you agree with me and help me convince my teammates :)

2-3 doubles are best, end of story... It's the most flexible system and you can make lots of descriptive bids when you pass first.
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#13 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-28, 10:20

Free, on Nov 28 2007, 02:33 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 26 2007, 09:33 PM, said:

What is best? Hope you agree with me and help me convince my teammates :)

2-3 doubles are best, end of story... It's the most flexible system and you can make lots of descriptive bids when you pass first.

The last time my opponents were playing them I wanted to run to spades, but ran to every suit along the way and found out almost their exact shapes first :)
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#14 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-28, 10:22

jdonn, on Nov 28 2007, 11:20 AM, said:

Free, on Nov 28 2007, 02:33 AM, said:

kgr, on Nov 26 2007, 09:33 PM, said:

What is best? Hope you agree with me and help me convince my teammates :)

2-3 doubles are best, end of story... It's the most flexible system and you can make lots of descriptive bids when you pass first.

The last time my opponents were playing them I wanted to run to spades, but ran to every suit along the way and found out almost their exact shapes first :)

And so did they? And were they able to make a good decision over 2S?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#15 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-28, 10:27

What do you think that would have been which they couldn't otherwise have achieved had I bid it right away?
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#16 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2007-November-28, 14:06

Yeah that's a disadvantage... But you don't always have a safe haven in ♠ :)
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