[Edmunte1]

Scoring: IMP

---

Using your favorite methods, can you reach the excellent small slam in diamons?

[mikeh]

no

[jdonn]

Easy in TOSR, or probably any relay variant. I would bid

1♣ 1♠
1NT 2♦
2♥ 2♠
2NT 3♣
3♦ 3♥
3♠ 4♣
4♦ 4♥
4♠ 4NT
6♦

1♣ is strong. Responder's bids through 3♣ show the shape, 3♥ shows a minimum positive response, 4♣ shows 3 controls, 4♥ denies any in hearts, 4NT denies any in spades, so it's AK of clubs. (I simplified the explanations, there are other options for many of them that opener can tell don't exist.)

In standard type bidding I'm sure I would start 1♦ 1NT, I can see no good reason to respond 1♥. Opener would likely just bid 3NT now. Even if he continued 2♠ in hopes of a slam, it might go 3♦ 3♥ 3NT 4♦ 5♣ .... probably opener would just sign off now. That was as close as I could come in good conciense without too much double-dummying.

[Halo]

No.

We play 3NT.

Good hand for science, not all that much chance of interference.

[Rossoneri]

Using Polish, yes, if one decides to treat the North hand as a strong GF. With 4 losers, that should probably be true.

After a club cue by south, north can probably push to slam.

Basically I think club systems fare better here.

[mycroft]

I'm obviously post-morteming, but I don't think it's unreasonable:

1C!-1NT!;
2D-2H!;
3D-4C;
4H-5C;
6D

Precision context, 1NT is balanced (no 5-card suit), 2H is <4 controls and < D Qxx, 4C can't be a suit, so with 3NT and 4D available, must be decent diamonds opposite "I don't care, partner, I have DIAMONDS" and cue, cues from there.

I think if after 3D, responder bids 4D, things get clearer, but harder.

[FrancesHinden]

You might after an Acol 2D opening, but in non-relay-type methods, generally no.

[benlessard]

♠ KQ2
♥ A3
♦ AKJ9732
♣ 6

♠ J54
♥ 8765
♦ 1086
♣ AK3


1D (at least 4 unbal) -----1H (nat 6+) (bypassing a 4M with no positionnal values is jsut bad IMHO)
2C (showing 6D)----------2D (2D is non-inv & doesnt show support)
2S -(3?6 reverse)-------- 2nt (show clubs stopper or positionnal holding in clubs Qx) GF
3D-(solid D keyC)--------3H 3H is 14, 3nt would have been not interested
3S (Q of trumps ?) -------4C (yes but denies K of S)
4D (K of H ?) --------------4H (no)
5C-(GST)-------------------???

4S would have ask for the K of C
4Nt would have ask for the Q of S
5D would have been Soff.

so by inference we can deduce that partner has a stiff clubs & the Q of S. Hes got at least 3 keycards, no voids at least 2H & 7D. So WTP ?


partner couldnt not have 3H he would have made a delayed h raise.
partner could be

AKQ
xx
AKxxxxx
x

and keycarding even without a H control (its a suit we have bid)

or

KQx
AX
AKxxxxx
x

From partner POV i could have AJxx in S and QD.
Qx in H with 4S + an A. So 5C is the perfect bid.

With the K of clubs and the J of S i have an easy 6D i think.

In theory we should be able to bid it in practice we often missed those fairly tough but far from impossible slams.

Congrats to those who are able to bid it.

For us GF with D is a trick stronger then this hand. But if we open 1C followed by 3D its surely going to be tougher.

This is the perfect hand for why i dont like the limited D in a precision system.

[whereagles]

Will probably end up in 3NT.

[skjaeran]

In a natural system you'd have no chance to reach the slam without making some very lucky (and odd) decisions.

[hrothgar]

jdonn, on Nov 23 2007, 12:41 AM, said:

Easy in TOSR, or probably any relay variant. I would bid

1♣ 1♠
1NT 2♦
2♥ 2♠
2NT 3♣
3♦ 3♥
3♠ 4♣
4♦ 4♥
4♠ 4NT
6♦

1♣ is strong. Responder's bids through 3♣ show the shape, 3♥ shows a minimum positive response, 4♣ shows 3 controls, 4♥ denies any in hearts, 4NT denies any in spades, so it's AK of clubs. (I simplified the explanations, there are other options for many of them that opener can tell don't exist.)

In standard type bidding I'm sure I would start 1♦ 1NT, I can see no good reason to respond 1♥. Opener would likely just bid 3NT now. Even if he continued 2♠ in hopes of a slam, it might go 3♦ 3♥ 3NT 4♦ 5♣ .... probably opener would just sign off now. That was as close as I could come in good conciense without too much double-dummying.

I don't think that I'd be able to find this playing MOSCITO

The auction would start with a strong club opening, however, responder's hand isn't quite strong enough for a game force.

Once you get a semi-positive response, I can't construct a reasonable auction to slam.

[foo]

Edmunte1, on Nov 22 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

North,Both,IMP,

♠KQ2 ♥A3 ♦AKJ9732 ♣6
+
♠J54 ♥8765 ♦T86 ♣AK3

Using your favorite methods, can you reach the excellent small slam in diamons?

The best "natural" systems for finding the ♦ slam are those based on 1N= 12-14 like KS.

For them, the following sequence shows a very strong minor suit oriented hand just shy of a 2C opener.
For such systems, a 4 loser hand (or a very strong 5 loser hand) containing at least 6 controls is the norm for the following:
1D-1H;3D

Once Responder knows that Opener has a hand that powerful, those ♣ controls become =much= more significant.
Responder now knows that NS have a 9+♦ fit and most likely at most 3 losers and at least 9 Controls between the 2 hands.

IMHO, this is a still a difficult slam to reach even after that, but you definitely have a better chance than if you were playing 2/1 GF.

NS's best chance at this point is probably for S to simply trust that their 2 cover cards are enough if the trumps are good enough and bid Minorwood:
...4D!;4S (showing 3 Keycards) - 4N (Asking for the CQ);
The key bid is when Opener shows the CQ because they have more trumps than expected and shows the SK as well with 5S.
6D can now be bid.

Thus:
1D-1H;3D-4D;4S-4N;5S-6D

[inquiry]

Frances is correct. A system that allows an ACOL 2♦ bid does the trick, but even there, not without some "hope it works" (at least for me). Those of us who include acol 2 in either minor within the multi 2♦ opening (showing suit good enough to play in slam opposite singleton, at least 5 controls, at least 9.5 tricks) would have an auction such as...

2♦ - 3♥*
4♦ - 5♣
6♦ - pass

*3♥ preemptive either major
4♦ big diamond hand
5♣ cue-bid, at least two potential tricks, no heart of spade cue-bid available
6♦ anything else is whimpy, hope partner is not ♦Q and ♣A and out.

[Gerben42]

I would start with
1♦ 1♥
1NT (any 18+ in Fantunes) 2♣ (GF opposite the 18+)
3♦ (Good long suit)

but it's still nontrivial from this point.

[keylime]

Agreed with the posters that in a forcing club setup, this is almost bread-and-butter. In Ultra it's 1C-2D-3D-3S (strong, balanced 8-10, asking, 3 ctrls). Now after denial cuebidding you locate the lacking Ace of spades, and still have to determine if 5D is the limit. The Jack of spades, is a massive card.

In a natural based setup, unless you had a way to show heart denial, this hand is hard; maybe something like:

1D - 1H
2NT* (lacking 3 hearts, six diamonds or more, good hand) - 3C* (sets g/f)
3S - 3NT

....and now what?

[ASkolnick]

Similar to MOSCITO based on ideas by Zars Pertov and tweaked by us.

Its a slightly stranger version of 4 card Majors, Intermediate 2 bids, and Non-forcing 2 over 1 bids.

We play 2 different strong bids

1) 1C Intermediate+ 2 suiters - get to keep the bidding low with no fit.
2) 1D shows a 1 bid type hand, either single suited or balanced. 6-4's are a grey area.

So, when we bid 1D, we treat it similar to a Mexican 2D.

1D 1H (GF Values)
2D 3D (Because of the inference of the 1D bid, we don't have to show the 4H, chances are partner doesn't have them and 8xxx 3433 and unless partner is 64 my hearts won't matter)
3H 4C (Control bids)
4D 5C
6D

[foo]

Edmunte1, on Nov 22 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

North,Both,IMP,
KQ2,A3,AKJ9732,6
opp
J54,8765,T86,AK3

Using your favorite methods, can you reach the excellent small slam in diamons?

Another way,

1D-1H;2S-3C;4D-4S;5D-6D

Yes, I know Opener's JS into KQx will not be to everyone's liking.
But it does solve the problem if playing standard methods.

[bhall]

Minotaur can do it, but only if opener is an optimist:
1♣ - 11+, both minors, 15-20 with any long suit, 18+ NT
1♥ - 7+ natural, exactly 4♥ only if he holds no 4+ card minor
3♦ - 8+ trick single-suiter, game force
4♣ - cue in support
4♦ - anything else? (4♥ would be an offer to play there)
5♣ - ♣AK, no major A or K
6♦ - hoping the ♠A is onside and that there is a ♦ entry!

Anybody who can locate the ♠J in responder's hand deserves our admiration.

[Echognome]

This is a tough one in any of my favorite methods.

With Gnomenclayture, the start is clear.

1♦ - 1♥
1NT* - 2♣**
2♦ - 3♦

* Artificial, good hand.
** Artificial, game force.

Although 2♦ shows a sixth diamond, from there it gets a bit murky and is impossible to judge seeing both hands.

With Echo or Gnome Club it's a different start:

1♣(1) - 1NT(2)
2♠(3) - 2NT(4)
3♦(5) - ?

(1) 16+ any shape
(2) 4432 or 4333, positive, GF
(3) Puppet to 2NT, various hand types
(4) Forced
(5) Single-suited slam try

And again, it's impossible to judge how it would be bid at the table. I suspect in the latter auction, responder might choose to bid 3NT and that would end matters.