[P_Marlowe]

Jlall, on Nov 19 2007, 06:01 AM, said:

I would def bid 3D with Kxxx of diamonds and xx clubs.

P_Marlowe I don't think jdonn (or anyone) thinks 2D is forcing, jdonn just realizes that a holding like Qxxx of diamonds and xx clubs is far more than minimum, and that the minors are the key on this auction. Partner would have no reason to think you have a hand as suitable as that when he bid 2D, and should be able to count on a raise with a hand that suitable.

Kxxx in diamonds and xx in clubs are nice,
the only problem I have, that 5D is a long way
to go.
And what you expect partner to hold, and as
several past discussion revealed and you certainly
know, a reverse in North America is stronger than
the style I learned / and play.

But we may talk again in 1 or 2 years, and my
answer may have changed.
I am changing, ... but maybe so slow, that nobody
sees it.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ArtK78]

In my opinion, 3♦ is enough on these cards.

Partner knows what he has, and he can bid again.

While the reverse is forcing (game forcing) opposite a partner who responded to the opening one bid, it is not forcing opposite a passed partner. If I had this hand without the ♦A, I would pass.

My partner and I had a nice hand the other day in an ACBL IMP pair game on BBO. I held:

Axxx
xxx
AQTx
xx

He opened 1♣ and I bid 1♦ (spades are not getting lost on this auction). His next bid was 3♠ - a splinter raise of diamonds. I bid 4♠ (for lack of a better call) and he bid 5♣. Without a heart control I bid 5♦ which ended the auction.

He held:

---
xx
KJxx
AKJxxxx

A very nice contract.

Partner may have a similar hand for his 1♣ opening and 2♦ reverse on the hand in this thread. If I bid 3♦ here, he is not passing. We will certainly get to game.

[mike777]

I would not reverse with Art's example hand.

[ArtK78]

mike777, on Nov 19 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

I would not reverse with Art's example hand.

Why not?

Players reverse in made up suits all the time and then rebid their long suit to force. Why not reverse in a suit you actually have?

And if the objection is that the hand is not strong enough, then you are being a slave to high card points. This is a very strong hand - it produces a game in clubs opposite as little as xxxx xxxx xx Qxx , and good play for a game in diamonds opposite as little as xxx xxx Axxxx xx.

[mike777]

ArtK78, on Nov 19 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

mike777, on Nov 19 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

I would not reverse with Art's example hand.

Why not?

Players reverse in made up suits all the time and then rebid their long suit to force. Why not reverse in a suit you actually have?

And if the objection is that the hand is not strong enough, that is absurd.

Yes I think the hand is not strong enough in terms of HCP. Yes it is a 5 loser hand and has good playing strength. I try to avoid reversing based soley on playing strength.

So I would not reverse on the auction:

1c=(1h)=p=p
?

btw I rarely if ever reverse on made up suits. Hard to think of last time I did.

[ArtK78]

Mike - I edited my post between original posting and your reply (which could not have been more than about 90 seconds).

[mike777]

ArtK78, on Nov 19 2007, 02:52 PM, said:

Mike - I edited my post between original posting and your reply (which could not have been more than about 90 seconds).

I will grant you I may not get to 5c game with your 14 hcp example. My opp may bid more. I may sac in 5clubs..who knows.