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Do u go quietly or throw the dice Opp opens 3 Hearts?

Poll: Bid or Pass (69 member(s) have cast votes)

Bid or Pass

  1. Double (67 votes [97.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 97.10%

  2. Pass (1 votes [1.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.45%

  3. Other (1 votes [1.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.45%

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#1 User is offline   badderzboy 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 03:09

Your opponent opens a standard 3♥ pre-empt and it goes p p to you ?


Scoring: IMP


Do u take any action and what would you change in the hand to consider some other call?



Steve
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 03:14

I think throwing the dice would be to pass. Doubling 3♥ is absolutely mandatory. You are the stronger hand and you are the one who is shorter in hearts. So who should act? (insert an underlined word here)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 03:24

Tis one of the more normal doubles the world has ever seen.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#4 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 03:58

Some people don't like doubling without 4 of the unmentioned major(s). I think this is wrong, at least 3 cards in the unmentioned suits should be enough.

View Postwyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.


View Postrbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#5 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 04:08

Even if pd bids 4♠ on a 4 bagger, we can handle The Force. so it should be ok.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#6 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 05:52

X, wtp?

Take away a Ace replacing it
with a x, or move a minor x
to hearts and I am considering
pass.
In the first scenario I would still
double, in the 2nd I would pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#7 User is offline   badderzboy 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 06:01

Thanks everyone.

I doubled and was told by a 'teacher' in a teaching class when you get more experienced you will learn to pass with this hand!

Ironically I help teach myself and some of the people I teach were also in this lesson, nothing worse than contradicting someone in this circumstance.

I didn't want to cause a furore but I couldn't see anyway I could justify passing the hand but maybe my judgement was off a little

Glad to know I hadn't gone mad ;)

Steve

On the hand in question u end up in 4♦s and go down 1 ....
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#8 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 07:37

Surely this post will be 100% for dble, a possible first.
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#9 User is offline   ArcLight 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 08:16

I think its unlikley that 3♥ will make. Also RHO didn't raise ♥, so (s)he may not have 3, and ♥may be 7-2-2-2 or 7-3-2-1. I don;t think that we are all that short, its not unlikley pard has 2 hearts.

Passing is a likely +50. Lets say there is a 2/3 chance of setting them, passing = a net -13. [-140 +50 + 50 = -40 / 3 = -13]

The advantage of doubling is pard can pick his long suit. Since LHO is long in hearts, its liklely the suits will break poorly, even so, pard is likley to have a suit of kind.

Also, its possible pard has a small but useful heart holding such as KJx or AQ behind declarer and will pass.

If you make its +130 or +140 (or more), if down it may only be -50, though there is a risk if pard has a bad flat hand.

I think the percentages are in favor of bidding (double). Probably a net +60 or 2 IMPS to double. In fact it may be higher, with the chance of game more than offsetting the occasional down doubled results. Maybe the expected result is closer to +80 or even more.



Even if 4♦ was down 1, might 3♥ have made? I wouldn't judge the decision by 1 hand.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 08:25

It's an enigma to me why the "teacher" said you should pass. Sure, if p is weak with 4-3 in the majors and spades split 5-1 pass will work better, but dbl is by far the best call in the long run.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#11 User is offline   SoTired 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 09:43

badderzboy, on Nov 10 2007, 07:01 AM, said:

Thanks everyone.

I doubled and was told by a 'teacher' in a teaching class when you get more experienced you will learn to pass with this hand!

One expert once told me:

Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who can't teach, teach bridge
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
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#12 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 09:51

mcphee, on Nov 10 2007, 07:37 AM, said:

Surely this post will be 100% for dble, a possible first.

It sure should be, but I am not as confident as you that it will be.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#13 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-November-10, 10:33

definitely X
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#14 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 10:42

mcphee, on Nov 10 2007, 08:37 AM, said:

Surely this post will be 100% for dble, a possible first.

For now you are right, 23-0! I don't recall ever seeing that, the keyboard monkeys ruin everything even if the hand was AKxx x AKxx KQxx.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#15 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 10:52

jdonn, on Nov 10 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

mcphee, on Nov 10 2007, 08:37 AM, said:

Surely this post will be 100% for dble, a possible first.

For now you are right, 23-0! I don't recall ever seeing that, the keyboard monkeys ruin everything even if the hand was AKxx x AKxx KQxx.

23-1!
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 12:15

Double.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#17 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 13:07

Auto double, off course !
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#18 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 15:40

Should be an automatic double.
If someone put a gun to my head and told me not to double I'd bid 3NT. :)
Kind regards,
Harald
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#19 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-November-10, 15:42

skaeran, on Nov 10 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

Should be an automatic double.
If someone put a gun to my head and told me not to double I'd bid 3NT. :)

I'd become a martyr :P
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#20 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-10, 17:06

I see, you voted "double" then Justin? :D
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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