[pclayton]

Double. I'm in a gambling mood today.

[skjaeran]

Jlall, on Nov 10 2007, 10:42 PM, said:

skaeran, on Nov 10 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

Should be an automatic double.
If someone put a gun to my head and told me not to double I'd bid 3NT.

I'd become a martyr

I've got kids, so that's not an option.

[joker_gib]

skaeran, on Nov 11 2007, 08:43 AM, said:

Jlall, on Nov 10 2007, 10:42 PM, said:

skaeran, on Nov 10 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

Should be an automatic double.
If someone put a gun to my head and told me not to double I'd bid 3NT.

I'd become a martyr

I've got kids, so that's not an option.

Lol

As you, ready to die for that Dbl !

[Gerben42]

Quote

I doubled and was told by a 'teacher' in a teaching class when you get more experienced you will learn to pass with this hand!

You can tell your teacher that if he gets more experienced he will learn to Dbl

Quote

For now you are right, 23-0! I don't recall ever seeing that, the keyboard monkeys ruin everything even if the hand was AKxx x AKxx KQxx.

Then some would vote 4♥ I guess, besides "opponent" was unclear, if it was Middle Hand Opponent you cannot Dbl!

[joker_gib]

cherdano, on Nov 10 2007, 05:52 PM, said:

jdonn, on Nov 10 2007, 10:42 AM, said:

mcphee, on Nov 10 2007, 08:37 AM, said:

Surely this post will be 100% for dble, a possible first.

For now you are right, 23-0! I don't recall ever seeing that, the keyboard monkeys ruin everything even if the hand was AKxx x AKxx KQxx.

23-1!

Probably the teacher ! LOL

[andy_h]

x for sure

[foo]

badderzboy, on Nov 10 2007, 04:09 AM, said:

Your opponent opens a standard 3♥ pre-empt and it goes p p to you ?


West, =Both Vul= =IMP= (emphasis mine- foo)
AJx,xx,AJ8x,AQxx

Do u take any action and what would you change in the hand to consider some other call?



Steve

The people calling this a mandatory X are mistaken.

You have 16 HCP. Both Vul @ IMPs your Opponents opened 3H in 1st chair.
The traditional range for a 3 bid is 4-9 HCP.

That leaves 7.5 <= x <= 10 HCP for your pard as their fair share.

Only in the case of the preempt being a minimum do we belong in Game (26 HCP between us means we don't care about fit).

If the 3H preempt was a maximum, we may not make 3S even if we do have a fit. We certainly do not rate to make 3S or 3N if we do not have a fit.

Both Vul @ IMPs, which do you think is more likely: that They opened a 4-6 HCP hand 3H or that they opened a 8-9 HCP hand 3H?
(Put yourself in Their shoes and remember that you can not afford to go down more than -2 X'ed +and+ that you can't afford a Phantom Sacrifice game swing @ IMPs. If you are looking at a 7 card suit and a side stiff/void, you can expect pard to have 2 card support, 2 cover cards, and only have a side shortness if they have more than 2 card support. You would open 3H or pass accordingly unless you are not playing good bridge.)

In addition, while your hand is very pure (no wasted values in ♥'s), it unfortunately has "the death holding" of 2 cards in their trump suit.

This is !NOT! a clear cut T/O X in this situation.

[Codo]

foo, on Nov 13 2007, 08:58 PM, said:

This is !NOT! a clear cut T/O X in this situation.

Good luck that there is an enlighted ONE between us dump 54.

We are all silly. Our opps and us, we are "not playing good bridge", because we open with 3 HEart on hands where his greatness won´t. And we think a double of 3 HEart with shortness in their suit and 16 nice HCPS is madatory. How little we know.

I am so happy that he shares his wisdom with us. Thank you foo.l

[zasanya]

badderzboy, on Nov 10 2007, 07:01 AM, said:

I doubled and was told by a 'teacher' in a teaching class when you get more experienced you will learn to pass with this hand!

Ironically I help teach myself and some of the people I teach were also in this lesson, nothing worse than contradicting someone in this circumstance.

I didn't want to cause a furore but I couldn't see anyway I could justify passing the hand but maybe my judgement was off a little

IMO a teacher should never actively participate in another teacher's session.You did a commendable thing by not responding.Many teachers would have got into a fruitless argument.

[jdonn]

foo, on Nov 13 2007, 06:58 AM, said:

This is !NOT! a clear cut T/O X in this situation.

Were you the teacher

Have fun arguing with the most unanimous vote in BBO forums history hehe.

[jtfanclub]

Huh?

Quote

You have 16 HCP.  Both Vul @ IMPs your Opponents opened 3H in 1st chair.
The traditional range for a 3 bid is 4-9 HCP.

That leaves 7.5 <= x <= 10 HCP for your pard as their fair share.

Only in the case of the preempt being a minimum do we belong in Game (26 HCP between us means we don't care about fit).

If opener has a max (apparently 9 hcp), and you have 16 hcp, there's certainly a rather considerable chance that your partner has a 10 count. It's not like he needs to have a minimum.

Furthermore, I'm not sure where you get this 26 count. Suppose that opener has a pure super-max of:

xx
AKQJT98
xx
xx

Remember, you have:

♠ AJx
♥ xx
♦ AJ8x
♣ AQxx

How many points do you need partner to have?

♠Kxx
♥xx
♦QTx
♣xxxxx

That's 5 hcp, the worst possible heart holding, fairly balanced, and still makes game. 8 hcp should usually be enough with a 5 card suit, provided no wastage in hearts.

If partner doesn't have a 5 card suit or 8 hcp, we should still be good one level below game. Remember, if they have a 9 card fit, we're guaranteed to have at least an 8 card fit, and the odds that we don't have an 8 card fit if they have an 8 card fit are too low to worry about.

So X, already.

[han]

The score is 57-1-1, I don't recall seeing this on the forums before. We should have a party! Moreover, one of the "1" voters was making a joke and the other seems to be foo.

[cherdano]

fooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[gwnn]

Hannie, on Nov 13 2007, 07:58 PM, said:

The score is 57-1-1, I don't recall seeing this on the forums before. We should have a party! Moreover, one of the "1" voters was making a joke and the other seems to be foo.

the two (or more? gulp) non doublers should really buy us a beer at the party if we reach 100.

[pclayton]

Foo nice to see you posting again.

[foo]

pclayton, on Nov 13 2007, 04:10 PM, said:

Foo nice to see you posting again. 

I find it amusing when anyone assumes that some bidding situation is clear cut based on assuming either pard or the opps have the perfect hands.

Opps are not nearly as likely to open 3H with an ultra pure hand that allows us to assume We are playing with a 30 HCP deck as they are with some other hand with enough playing strength for them to feel safe preempting 1st chair all Vul @ IMPs.

Nor is pard likely to have the perfect minimum or perfect hand for us to make game.

While I might very well X on this board, I think it's misleading to call it an automatic decision.

You called it a gamble you felt like taking to X 3H with this hand, and I agree.
That is not the same thing as a "sure thing" or an "automatic action".

/sarcasm on
It's impressive that such an august community of ultra-strong players with such impressive records in the highest levels of competition are here to correct the more prosaic judgments of some working bridge teacher who has to give sound advice to more ordinary players.
/sarcasm off

I wonder what the objective court of a reasonable simulation or few would return as the percentage action or the obviousness of it?