[karlson]

Scoring: MP

P P P 1♦
P 1N 2♥ 3♣
3♥ ??

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[whereagles]

4♥, to follow up with 5♣, on grounds pard probably has a singleton heart.

[Apollo81]

Clear 4♥. We have the nuts.

[helene_t]

Dbl, we have the smallest number of minor-suit cards and except for ♣J the smallest amount of minor-suit honors possible. It may be right for p to pull this double, if so he will.

[Matadi49]

Double, I am not sure if we have game, but my partner must know I have a good hand.

[FrancesHinden]

4H seems about right.

[whereagles]

Jlall, on Nov 14 2007, 04:30 PM, said:

Guess others expect a lot for this 3C bid. I don't even take 3C as showing that much, and don't like my chances to make game with no honors in the minors.

Why is that? Pard rates to be 55. There is 1 loser in the majors, plenty of entries to dummy to finesse minor-suit honors through overcaller... I'd say 5♣ has chances. Sure, if pard has a min 55 you're going down, but there's no clear-cut way to invite a game here (unless you have a 'kenrex' sort of agreement that 3♠ now is an artificial invite), so you might as well try for the game, cueing in case pard has a better than expected hand.

[Apollo81]

Jlall, on Nov 14 2007, 12:30 PM, said:

Guess others expect a lot for this 3C bid. I don't even take 3C as showing that much, and don't like my chances to make game with no honors in the minors. I would just double them and take the sure thing, the field probably won't be in game anyways.

IMO playing partner, a 4th seat opener, for a hand that sets 3♥ and won't make 5m here is a huge position.

[whereagles]

Justin, I agree with all that, but pard can also have a slightly better hand, say,

xx
x
AQJxx
AKxxx

and game is pretty good. What you really need is an invite, but, bar the muddy 3♠ call, I can't see how you're gonna make an invite, so might as well bid game.

(Ok, this is a bit imps-thinking, but you get the point.)

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Nov 14 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

Guess others expect a lot for this 3C bid. I don't even take 3C as showing that much, and don't like my chances to make game with no honors in the minors. I would just double them and take the sure thing, the field probably won't be in game anyways.

If you think 3♣ might be on the light side then why would you ever double 3♥? You have a club fit with nothing special. Your AQ AQ example could be KQJ KQ couldnt it? You are totally right though that 4♥ is way too much, I wouldn't even bid 5♣ I would just bid 4♣. I think it's easy for people to think the major suit aces are amazing for offense when really they aren't, they are tricks that help develop nothing. I would rather have the king of a minor than either ace in a heart beat.

[Apollo81]

I guess the moral of the story is that GB 2N would be helpful so we know whether pard has a min (pass, bid 4c or what have you) or not (double, bid game)

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Nov 14 2007, 08:39 AM, said:

Heaven forbid partner doesn't even have a pure 5-5 and has bid 3C with something like Qxx x AKxxx KQxx because he knows they have 9 hearts and knows we have at least a 9 card or 2 8 card minor suit fits, and he has short hearts so there's a very good chance of you passing out 2H.

I would think pard makes a takeout x with this shape over 2♥.

A lot of this depends on pard's tendencies. G/B really helps here, since we can differentiate between a shapely 11 and a 17.

If I'm making a slam try, I think its sounder to try 3♠ first. Over pard's expected 4m, I can then bid 4♥. I'm not worried about the opps bidding 4♥. If they do, pard will (I hope) pass and I can double.

So, with someone very old-fashioned where a 3 level free bid actually means something, I'll bid 3♠. With some whipper-snapper, I'll double and lead the A♠.

[whereagles]

Apollo81, on Nov 14 2007, 05:17 PM, said:

I guess the moral of the story is that GB 2N would be helpful so we know whether pard has a min (pass, bid 4c or what have you) or not (double, bid game)

indeed

[FrancesHinden]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 14 2007, 04:18 PM, said:

4H seems about right.

I missed the 2H overcall.

Now I agree with Justin about partner's hand type, but I don't like double because it might well make.

I'll go with the murky 3S bid.

[karlson]

This is kind of a funny hand, because given our 1N bid, we have the minimum length in the minors that we could possibly have. Because of that, I didn't really want to raise (I certainly wasn't thinking about slam, that seems nuts). As far as placement, well the aces in the majors are higher ODR than we might have, but as jdonn says, we'd gladly trade one for a minor suit K. In particular ♦xxx seems really bad.

I thought double was pretty clear at the table, but a local world class player said he would bid 4♣ for sure. Pass is perhaps also an option. I have to say that the discussion hasn't been particularly illuminating, as in, I still don't know what I'd do next time.

4c is the winner (well, I don't know what partner would do over 3s), as the full hand was

Scoring: MP

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