[keylime]

I like 2♠ - gets my hand across and it's just right on suit strength. 3♠ is a little harsh with this hand.

[SoTired]

probably 2S, maybe 3S. I personally don't like 1S with this hand.

I have noticed many experts increasingly consider 1S or 2S almost interchangable with this hand type in these situations,

[Yogeshdg]

If not vul i bid 3♠ else 2♠

[mikeh]

2♠: no second choice

I really dislike 1♠. It lacks (much) preemptive value: indeed, an overcall that is in the suit just above opener's often acts as an anti-preempt. It allows for negative doubles and a non-forcing 1N, as well as not exactly taking away bidding space: what are the chances that LHO was going to bid 1♠ if we passed.

And 1♠ should promise sone constructive values. I think that is so in all situations, but especially when partner is an unpassed hand. Most NA experts nowadays play extremely wide-range overcalls, so partner has to cater to a good 17 with a 5 card suit, as an example, and thus will (1) not raise with 2 cards when that gives us a 9 card fit, and (2) bid with values and no fit.. maybe bid too much, or (3) make a double of an enemy game based on short(ish) spades and an expectation of more than 1 defensive trick and negative side values.

3♠ is just too much.

And passers should never be dealt long spade suits: such are wasted on people who pass this hand.

So 2♠ it is: the goldilocks bid: just right.

[cnszsun]

Pass was indeed a good choice this time.
I bid 2♠ and got -1100.

[mike777]

cnszsun, on Nov 15 2007, 08:35 AM, said:

Pass was indeed a good choice this time.
I bid 2♠ and got -1100.

Going for 1100 does seem a bit unlucky

But would expect a push as worse case

[jdonn]

mike777, on Nov 15 2007, 11:25 AM, said:

But would expect a push as worse case

Not with someone who bid 1♠ at the other table.....

[lilboyman]

With my regular partners, we use the rule of 2/3/4. With only 5 winners 2 Spades would be the limit of this hand. Likewise, we would not open this 1 Spade because our discipline requires 2 defensive tricks to make an opening bid of 1 of a suit. The latter agreement keeps us out of 5 or 6 Spades when partner has 18 plus hand and to make intelligent decisions on competitive hands at the 5 level.

[mike777]

lilboyman, on Nov 16 2007, 09:12 AM, said:

With my regular partners, we use the rule of 2/3/4.  With only 5 winners 2 Spades would be the limit of this hand.  Likewise, we would not open this 1 Spade because our discipline requires 2 defensive tricks to make an opening bid of 1 of a suit.  The latter agreement keeps us out of 5 or 6 Spades when partner has 18 plus hand and to make intelligent decisions on competitive hands at the 5 level.

I also use the rule of 2/3/4 but how are you counting 5 winners? In other words what method of counting winners do you use and why is that method better than the other ways?

I ask this since I would count this hand as 6 winners.....

1) We have 7 spades
2) I assume the remaining 6 spades are split evenly 2-2-2
3) therefore 6 winning spades.

[ArtK78]

If I were going to try to determine how many winners my hand would produce, I would assume that partner has a low singleton in my long suit, not that the suit is divided 2/2/2 around the table.

One should make conservative (but reasonable) assumptions in these situations.

[mike777]

ArtK78, on Nov 16 2007, 04:32 PM, said:

If I were going to try to determine how many winners my hand would produce, I would assume that partner has a low singleton in my long suit, not that the suit is divided 2/2/2 around the table.

One should make conservative (but reasonable) assumptions in these situations.

That does not seem to be the method discussed in the Bridge Encyclopedia.
See pages 354 and 355.

"In Estimating the trick-taking strength of a hand, the holder assumes that his long suit will break evenly among the other three hands."

[han]

mike777, on Nov 16 2007, 04:16 PM, said:

1) We have 7 spades
2) I assume the remaining 6 spades are split evenly 2-2-2
3) therefore 6 winning spades.

How often do you expect to make 6 spade tricks? Have you ever considered that question?

How many tricks should you expect to take from this suit on average? What if you assume that partner does not have spade honors that he would consider as increasing you trick taking potential?

[ArtK78]

mike777, on Nov 16 2007, 04:45 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Nov 16 2007, 04:32 PM, said:

If I were going to try to determine how many winners my hand would produce, I would assume that partner has a low singleton in my long suit, not that the suit is divided 2/2/2 around the table.

One should make conservative (but reasonable) assumptions in these situations.

That does not seem to be the method discussed in the Bridge Encyclopedia.
See pages 354 and 355.

"In Estimating the trick-taking strength of a hand, the holder assumes that his long suit will break evenly among the other three hands."

That is an optimistic assumption. It would make more sense if you held 6 or 8 cards in the suit, as then it is more reasonable to assume an even division of the cards in the suit around the table. A 3/2/2 division of the remaining 7 cards in a suit (or a 1/2/2 division of the remaining 5 cards in a suit) is far more likely than a 2/2/2 division of the 6 remaining cards in a suit.