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What is 5N?

Poll: What is 5N? (26 member(s) have cast votes)

What is 5N?

  1. Grand Slam Force (20 votes [76.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.92%

  2. Minors (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  3. Pick a slam with heart tolerance (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  4. Other (1 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

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#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-November-05, 22:59

Adam and I played a TG the other night and I sprung this bid on him.

1♥ - (3♠) - 5N (!)

How would you take 5N?
"Phil" on BBO
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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-November-05, 23:17

Grand slam force, pick a slam makes no sense as you can just bid 4 of a suit forcing.
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#3 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 00:04

Yeah, at first I thought GSF makes no sense either, but it could be very handy on a hand that is void in a suit besides spades.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 01:39

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?
"Phil" on BBO
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 01:49

pclayton, on Nov 6 2007, 02:39 AM, said:

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?

Hands that would bid GSF here are going to be verrrry shapely, I would truly fear being bombarded in competition.

Also partner might interfere. 4♠ 5♠ 6♥ p back to us, are we sure he has the honors we need or maybe he just has a lot of shape too.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#6 User is offline   jonottawa 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 02:28

Where's the option:

Grand Slam force except with Phil in which case I'd bid 6 of my best minor and then correct 6 Hearts to 7 if I had 2.

B)
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#7 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 05:56

Grand slam force asking for trump honours
Alain
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 10:53

You can argue like this:

"It can't be GSF because pard could have used RKCB if he wanted to know about trumps. So it must be some pick-a-slam."

or

"It can't be pick-a-slam because pard could have bid 4♦ followed by 6♣ if he wanted me to pick-a-slam."

or

"It can be GSF with a hand that, for some reason, does not want to know about keycards. That must be a hand with GS strength and a void, probably NOT in spades because with that hand pard could have just bid 5♠ voidwood followed by a trump queen ask."

Conclusion 1: pard has something like

Axx
Axxx
AKQxxx
--

Conclusion 2: if you think all this is far-fetched, you're right. This sort of undiscussed bid is better off not being made at table. The chance for a mix-up doesn't compensate eventual gains.
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 16:30

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.
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#10 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 16:33

Fluffy, on Nov 6 2007, 02:30 PM, said:

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.

More than 1 major - 5N? :)
"Phil" on BBO
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#11 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 16:34

I watched you play this hand so I know what you held but I'd take it as GSF as Adam did.
Kevin Fay
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#12 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 17:35

Why would anyone take up so much bidding space if it were not for a very clear reason - in this case, grand slam force?

I cannot imagine another interpretation of 5NT. If it was intended as something other than a grand slam force, it was asking for a disaster.
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 17:55

I actually held: ♠x, ♥A, ♦KJTxx, ♣AQxxxx

I suppose I could bid 4♣ (like the other table). Adam had a death hand of ♠Kxx ♥KJ9xx ♦AQx ♣xx, yet 6♦ has chances. I really don't know what he does over 4♣. Nothing works here - KJTx of clubs sat over my hand and the hand was generally foul.

Adam took it as GSF and we played 6♥. He played it well for -300, which pushed with the other table, when they played 6♣.

If we had the agreement that this was PAS, I think he would opt for 6♦.

I think we rough up 3♠ pretty good. Its our best spot as it turns out.
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 18:52

I would have bid 4♦ then 5♣ and hope for anything but 2-2 from partner, I'm not forcing to slam on suits with that many holes. Is not unreasonable I think to play 4♠ keycard and 4NT minors on this one specific auction, by agreement (can follow with 5♥ as slam try)
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#15 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-November-06, 22:39

I was not online but someone told me on AIM "come look what Clayton just did!" so I came and watched.

I haven't discussed this auction but I think it should be GSF.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#16 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-November-07, 12:42

This is Josephine for sure - I don't understand why americans calls it Grand Slam Force (true - the bid is forcing, but it just invites a grand...).
Kind regards,
Harald
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#17 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 05:01

skaeran, on Nov 7 2007, 07:42 PM, said:

This is Josephine for sure

Exactly ! :lol:
Alain
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 09:48

pclayton, on Nov 6 2007, 10:33 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Nov 6 2007, 02:30 PM, said:

this is the most classic and obvious grand slam force sequence I know.

More than 1 major - 5N? :)

I normally splinter when non competitive, but maybe for others :)
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#19 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2007-November-08, 10:18

pclayton, on Nov 6 2007, 08:39 AM, said:

Why can't a hand that has primary support just cue bid 1st?

Because all it wants to know is partner's trump honours. Why slow the auction down when you know what you want?

I agree this is obviously GSF, because nothing else really makes sense.

(on the actual hand I would bid 4C, opener would bid 4NT and as responder I'd have to guess. Looks like I would be going off in 4NT although double dummy it sounds as if there is some form of strip squeeze assuming a spade lead)
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