[Fluffy]

Why did partner bid 3♥?

1♥-1♠
4♥-4NT
5♠-6♥/♠/NT

[Codo]

jonottawa, on Nov 8 2007, 03:55 AM, said:

Pard had one of these two hands:

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

(And yes, I know, you can cheat and go to myhands and find out which.)

I'd be interested to know how you think the auction should proceed in either case.

After
1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 4 NT 5 ♠ 6 NT
After
1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 3 ♠ 4 ♥ 5 NT 6 ♦ 6 NT

After
1 ♥ 1 ♠ 3 ♥ 3 ♠ 3 NT 4 ♣ 4 ♦ 4 ♥ I 4 NT 5 ♠ 6 NT

I doubt that anybody can find out whether or not opener has the Jack of spades?!

[jonottawa]

Aight. Interest in this one seems to have petered out. Maybe it wasn't a fair question. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

and

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

I 'unilaterally bashed' on my 2nd call and bid 4NT. I wanted to bid 4NT while both my pard and I knew for sure what it meant (Keycard for Hearts) and not later when it could arguably mean Keycard for Spades, Keycard for Hearts, Blackwood ordinaire, or quantitative (like Codo was saying.)

I considered pard to be a heavy favorite to have 3, in which case I was bidding 7NT, hoping that either one of our suits ran or that there were 13 toppers anyway (like beatrix45 was saying.) He didn't. I bid 6NT. He had the 1st hand. Doh.

In hindsight, 3 Spades is probably better. But on the actual hand while you can delay the guess as long as you want, I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

It scored ok on BBO (lose 0.7) but might not do so well IRL. When I looked at all the auctions that got to 7, though, none of them made any sense. So I thought it would be a good problem.

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jonottawa

[whereagles]

jonottawa, on Nov 8 2007, 03:56 PM, said:

1. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

2. I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

1. If the guy with hearts is relaying, you *might* get to 7 scientifically.

2. That's the whole point. Some hands you just don't have the tools and should just be practical.

[pclayton]

jonottawa, on Nov 8 2007, 07:56 AM, said:

Aight. Interest in this one seems to have petered out. Maybe it wasn't a fair question. I doubt more than 1 pair in 10000 could INTELLIGENTLY distinguish between

J / AQJT974 / A4 / Q83

and

4 / AQJT974 / AJ / Q83

I 'unilaterally bashed' on my 2nd call and bid 4NT. I wanted to bid 4NT while both my pard and I knew for sure what it meant (Keycard for Hearts) and not later when it could arguably mean Keycard for Spades, Keycard for Hearts, Blackwood ordinaire, or quantitative (like Codo was saying.)

I considered pard to be a heavy favorite to have 3, in which case I was bidding 7NT, hoping that either one of our suits ran or that there were 13 toppers anyway (like beatrix45 was saying.) He didn't. I bid 6NT. He had the 1st hand. Doh.

In hindsight, 3 Spades is probably better. But on the actual hand while you can delay the guess as long as you want, I think in the end you're still going to end up guessing.

It scored ok on BBO (lose 0.7) but might not do so well IRL. When I looked at all the auctions that got to 7, though, none of them made any sense. So I thought it would be a good problem.

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands...rname=jonottawa

With a hand across you like this, you'll end up guessing. A direct 3♠ will elicit a preference with a doubleton. Isn;t that what you want to hear?

In some long sessions of bidding practice it seems a recurring problem are two strong hands with long, but not quite solid suits facing each other.

[keylime]

I like 4♣ a lot more than a confusing 3♠. You have a rebid coming to ask about the diamond situation (5♠).

Good problem.

[jdonn]

keylime, on Nov 8 2007, 12:13 PM, said:

I like 4♣ a lot more than a confusing 3♠. You have a rebid coming to ask about the diamond situation (5♠).

Good problem.

I don't see how making a cuebid for partner with a void is less confusing than simply rebidding your long suit?

There are some hands where partner would raise the 3♠ bid on singleton jack and then we could find a grand. Unfortunately this isn't one of them, partner would rebid 4♥ in either case and I would get to 6NT. Not 7NT on the first and 7♣ on the second

[keylime]

Here's the thing tho - I have privately hated a 4 level bid over a 3M jump bid as a cuebid; pard had told me their hand and I want to help pard get to the right contract.

I also don't want to lose the club suit either if pard's on a 6-4 (or better). I have another bid coming to me and I want to help pard make the right decision. Since I have super spades, and 2nd round diamond control, I want to drive to slam. I can still get to 7♠ or NT.

I can't get this information by 1h-1s-3h-3s-3n-4c because the diamond control still is out there to determine, and the trump suit is yet well defined. I definitely can't get this info from a 4NT ace-asking bid either.