[han]

Scoring: IMP

p - (p) - 1S - (3D)
??

---

What's your call?

[BillHiggin]

4♠ undo 3♠ seems to most accurately describe this.
Since I do not actually do that sort of thing, 3♠ (have I told you how much I hate 4333)

[Mr. Dodgy]

double

[jdonn]

3♠ what am I missing? If pard was dicking around in 3rd seat that's his problem.

[Codo]

Double

I can handle any bid by pd, even a pass.

[foo]

Hannie, on Nov 5 2007, 10:23 PM, said:

South,Both,IMP,
♠KQx ♥ATxx ♦xxx ♣Qxx

p - (p) - 1S - (3D);??

What's your call?

4333's stink in terms of play potential.

A negative X here should strongly tend to show 4 cards in each of the unbid suits.

If GOP promises 5+M with their 3rd seat 1 opening, I raise to 3S.

If GOP makes frequent 4cM 1M openings in 3rd chair, I make a Negative X.

[joker_gib]

All honours probably works but this is 4333 so 3♠

Alain

[brianshark]

3♠ seems clearcut. Dbl is silly with support and 4♠ is just too aggressive with such a flat hand.

[Codo]

If 3 Spade is clear cut, there is no question.
Most people don´t pass with Kxx,Axxx,xx,xxxx after 1♠ (3 ♦).
So you better play 3 Spade as 6-9. You may downgrade because of your 4333, but if this is correct is no certainity at all.

[kenrexford]

When 3rd-seat can be light, Responder is conservative and Opener is aggressive.

Thus, 3♠. This shows a hand as a passer that would/might have bid game as a non-passer.

[drinbrasil]

3S, double denie support in my system in this position :-)

[pclayton]

Wouldn't we be bidding 3♠ with a 7 count and 4 trump here?

I hate my shape and my xxx of diamonds, but this is a good hand otherwise.

I think I'll double. Getting to hearts could be key if pard is 5=4=1=3.

[joker_gib]

pclayton, on Nov 6 2007, 05:44 PM, said:

Wouldn't we be bidding 3♠ with a 7 count and 4 trump here?

Only if we have shape....

I can strech a bit in this position of course but I tend to be conservative with flat hands.

[whereagles]

Seems like a textbook wide-ranging 3♠.

[brianshark]

Bidding with 7 counts for the sake of competing is the stretch. 9-11 limit raise hands is the norm.

[jdonn]

3♠ shows about 8 to 11. "A 7 count and four trumps" is pretty much 8. So if this is a maximum (but obvious in the sense that 4 is too much) 3♠, there isn't much point in saying "But we would make the same bid on a minimum 3♠ bid so we can't also do it on a maximum 3♠ bid!"

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Nov 6 2007, 10:25 AM, said:

3♠ shows about 8 to 11. "A 7 count and four trumps" is pretty much 8. So if this is a maximum (but obvious in the sense that 4 is too much) 3♠, there isn't much point in saying "But we would make the same bid on a minimum 3♠ bid so we can't also do it on a maximum 3♠ bid!"

Well ok. Part of this has to do with pard's tendencies opposite a passed hand negative double. Will he punt with 3♥ or 3♠ with a minimum? Will he just bash 3N with a diamond stopper (stupid I know).

My concern is that we could miss a game opposite some very acceptable minimums. We have three cover cards and possibly a 4th. Even the ♥10 could be valuable.

Would you move with a 6 loser hand like: AJxxx, KQxx, xx, Ax if pard bid a simple 3♠? I don't think I would.

[neilkaz]

This is a maximum 3♠ call, but I am allowed to hold a max. 4333's don't always offer the best play for game and I don't want to hang PD for possibly opening a bit light in 3rd seat.

Double is my close 2nd choice here, however.

[Edmunte1]

Some comments:
1) I don't like double at all. Suppose that partner holds something like:
A10xxxx Kxx x K10x. What would happen? He'll bid 3

[awm]

I think double is a good alternative to bidding game. After all:

(1) If partner leaves the double in, that's probably right.
(2) If partner bids 3NT, that could be a better game than 4♠.
(3) If partner bids 3♥, we can play the 4-4 heart fit which is probably a superior game.
(4) We can always raise 3♠ to 4♠ anyway, or correct 4♣ to 4♠.

Of course, this doesn't solve the problem that this hand isn't really worth a game force...

I think opposite a partner in first chair, I'd go with double planning to bid game. After all, we are "close enough" to game values and 3♠ could be a worse hand for sure.

But opposite a third seat opening, it's more likely that partner has some minimum hand (after all he will open things that might not open in 1st seat) and it feels right to give partner some leeway by bidding only 3♠.