Help
Today, in the 5:OO pm speedball, last hand. I was playing in 5 clubs. When i didn't drop the Q of clubs (clubs were 3-1) I knew I was going down.
So I told the director after the game that we should be down 1 on the board.
We thus received a 37 %. That was fair.
I looked at the results then and saw that three others were also in 5 clubs. All three also did not drop the Q. And all three did not finish the hand.
They were given the usual 40%--both directions for failure to finish the hand.
It doesn't seem right that if the hand results can clearly be seen that they not be recorded correctly.
I visited with the director of that game and he said they do not adjust unless requested to do so. it seems it would take little effort to try to make the last board right.
Page 1 of 1
Why not adjust last hand if result is clear?
#2
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,941
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2007-November-03, 19:48
This doesn't seem right, why not let the last round complete normally?
It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.
Bridge should be fun!
Bridge should be fun!
#3 Guest_movingon_*
Posted 2007-November-04, 12:48
I am sorry. I should have identified the game referred to as an ACBL speedball pairs. Evidently the software is built so that the director has no control of the clock, even in the last round.
If you don't finish a board, both pairs receive 40% or in an imp game -3 imps.
Then the director can look at the hands and adjust the board to the clear result (if there is a clear result).
I assumed that the director took a quick look at any incompleted hands and made those adjustments without having to be asked to do so.
I, however, always tell the director what the result on unfinished hands appear to be and specifically ask the director to look at the hand and adjust accordingly.
Anyway, on this hand, there were four of us tables, all in the same contract that didn't quite finish the hand. All four of us played it pretty much the same way, and all four of us should have been down 1. Our partnership reported this and received a37% instead of the usual 40% for not finishing the board.
Now if the other three pairs had had their scores adjusted, I suspect we would have had a score above 40%.
not a big difference I suppose.
But what about the 4 sets of defenders who deserved a score in the 60th percentile rather than the 40% they received?
What do you think? Shouldn't the game be made as equitable as possible?
Am I wrong in thinking that some tournament directors automatically look at the unfinished boards and adjust as needed?
If you don't finish a board, both pairs receive 40% or in an imp game -3 imps.
Then the director can look at the hands and adjust the board to the clear result (if there is a clear result).
I assumed that the director took a quick look at any incompleted hands and made those adjustments without having to be asked to do so.
I, however, always tell the director what the result on unfinished hands appear to be and specifically ask the director to look at the hand and adjust accordingly.
Anyway, on this hand, there were four of us tables, all in the same contract that didn't quite finish the hand. All four of us played it pretty much the same way, and all four of us should have been down 1. Our partnership reported this and received a37% instead of the usual 40% for not finishing the board.
Now if the other three pairs had had their scores adjusted, I suspect we would have had a score above 40%.
not a big difference I suppose.
But what about the 4 sets of defenders who deserved a score in the 60th percentile rather than the 40% they received?
What do you think? Shouldn't the game be made as equitable as possible?
Am I wrong in thinking that some tournament directors automatically look at the unfinished boards and adjust as needed?
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 5,808
- Joined: 2003-January-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:USA
Posted 2007-November-04, 17:54
One major element of a speedball is that it runs very quickly - 4.5 mins per board. This is sufficient for most people ( and we have the non-speedballs, 7 mins per board, for the others )
We can't have TDs delaying the last round in a speedball. It isnt that the TDs can't adjust the clock, it is that we don't want them to.
Slow play in a speedball does cause some minor problems, like the stray incomplete board. It would be better to someday automate the adjustment, like we do with incomplete "money bridge" boards, and someday we'll do that .
Uday
We can't have TDs delaying the last round in a speedball. It isnt that the TDs can't adjust the clock, it is that we don't want them to.
Slow play in a speedball does cause some minor problems, like the stray incomplete board. It would be better to someday automate the adjustment, like we do with incomplete "money bridge" boards, and someday we'll do that .
Uday
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 18,180
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2007-November-04, 19:11
uday, on Nov 4 2007, 06:54 PM, said:
One major element of a speedball is that it runs very quickly - 4.5 mins per board. This is sufficient for most people ( and we have the non-speedballs, 7 mins per board, for the others )
We can't have TDs delaying the last round in a speedball. It isnt that the TDs can't adjust the clock, it is that we don't want them to.
Slow play in a speedball does cause some minor problems, like the stray incomplete board. It would be better to someday automate the adjustment, like we do with incomplete "money bridge" boards, and someday we'll do that .
Uday
We can't have TDs delaying the last round in a speedball. It isnt that the TDs can't adjust the clock, it is that we don't want them to.
Slow play in a speedball does cause some minor problems, like the stray incomplete board. It would be better to someday automate the adjustment, like we do with incomplete "money bridge" boards, and someday we'll do that .
Uday
I note with 60-90 pairs in speedballs and around ten in standard bbo games, you get a ton of bds that must be adjusted. This is all on top of the usual director calls.
Please note online speedballs are bigger, much bigger than many regional open pairs now. Add in some wine/beer, non english speaking players, midnight sleepy players (me), and the usual online distractions it is amazing these games go as smoothly as they do.
#6 Guest_movingon_*
Posted 2007-November-07, 08:33
Thank you for your replies.
An automated adjustment would be wonderful. I hope someday that happens.
In a recent game, I noted that very few pairs finished the last hand (about 5 finished and a dozen didn't. I wonder how the final results would have been affected if those boards could have been automatically adjusted.
Anyway. i really like the speedballs, although a slow pair or partner can raise the blood pressure!
An automated adjustment would be wonderful. I hope someday that happens.
In a recent game, I noted that very few pairs finished the last hand (about 5 finished and a dozen didn't. I wonder how the final results would have been affected if those boards could have been automatically adjusted.
Anyway. i really like the speedballs, although a slow pair or partner can raise the blood pressure!
#7 Guest_movingon_*
Posted 2007-November-07, 08:36
Still... just adding one more minute to the last round I wiould think would help alleviate tournament director woes!
For one thing, once the tournament is over, the adjustments that the td makes doesn't register completely in the tournament records available for player review. That alone, might be rationale to add a minute to the last round if needed.
For one thing, once the tournament is over, the adjustments that the td makes doesn't register completely in the tournament records available for player review. That alone, might be rationale to add a minute to the last round if needed.
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,343
- Joined: 2004-January-03
Posted 2007-November-07, 11:26
Quote
Still... just adding one more minute to the last round I wiould think would help alleviate tournament director woes!
speed ball = play fast if you dont you get ave assigned, lets keep it simple or else, on difficult hands, some people may slow down as the director will find a line of play that the players at the table could not and hence get an adjustment they dont deserve
#9 Guest_movingon_*
Posted 2007-November-08, 09:11
Remember, if you don't finish a hand, BOTH sides--declarers and defenders-- receive a 40%. If you don't finish a hand, somebody is getting an undeserved result!
#10
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 90
- Joined: 2007-January-13
Posted 2007-November-09, 17:38
so, in the last board, if declarer feels that he's in a ridiculous contract (because of a bidding misunderstanding) that will likely result in a bottom score, he may intentionally play slow to get 40%?
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 18,180
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2007-November-09, 18:22
frouu, on Nov 9 2007, 06:38 PM, said:
so, in the last board, if declarer feels that he's in a ridiculous contract (because of a bidding misunderstanding) that will likely result in a bottom score, he may intentionally play slow to get 40%?
Any or all boards including the last one in a speedball may be adjusted. In fact if you ask the director and tell him a clear line of play they almost always are...
Yes due to time restraints you may find a few slip through but they do really try and adjust the vast majority of them if given enough information.
Yes the opp do play very slow to avoid a bad board. This happens all the time. Most of the time....they get caught.
Page 1 of 1