[pclayton]

I think this is a very complicated but its a great hand. After mulling this over a day, here's what I think:

On the surface, 5♠ looks superior to 5N and 6♦ is obvious.

6♠ is an interesting call. It commits the partnership to a grand since North doesn't know if South has a suitable spade stopper for 6N. Is that even wise not knowing there is a suitable fit?

Lets go back. North needs a lot of information and 5♠ really cramps the auction. 4N will get the same information and North can plan the bidding from there. Here's what I would suggest:

.............4N
5♦.....5N
6♥.....7♥
Pass

5N is pick a slam but should de-emphasize diamonds and bring the other strains into play.

6♥ on the fragment looks logical.

I don't like to pass out blame in an auction like this since I think these sequences are a lot easier to analyze after the fact.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Nov 2 2007, 11:38 AM, said:

I think north bid too much in such a guessing situation. Partner had a perfect honors, that won't always be the case.

There are 14 missing high card points outside spades and partner had 12 of them, what would you expect from a 1NT opener after a 4♠ overcall? I think his honors were about par.

I still like 6NT, the space ace is not going to be as valuable as it would elsewhere, and it avoids having to commit to any other bid. While I can't say I have any clue it would be defined as forcing, I think partner will never pass on his obvious huge hand with a spade void. If we had tons of spade wastage somehow we would probably bid 6NT over 5♠.

Edit: Sorry Hannie I didn't see you recommended 7NT by south. I actually think that's an excellent bid, after all there are 13 top tricks here and most people don't even think north has a 6♠ bid, so yeah I like 7NT right there by south.

[ArtK78]

pclayton, on Nov 2 2007, 12:50 PM, said:

6♠ is an interesting call. It commits the partnership to a grand since North doesn't know if South has a suitable spade stopper for 6N.

I am not sure about this. Clearly, 6♠ is trying for a grand slam. But if South has spade values, the 6♠ bid allows the partnership to get out at 6NT. Transfer South's spade values to diamonds, and a suit grand is best.

Still, a very complicated auction.

[jonottawa]

I think a lot of the comments are way off the mark.

"I think 5♠ was a great bid."

I think 6♠ was a great bid.

"I don't like 6♦ much."

I like 6♦ just fine.

"N was horrible, imho."

Nobody was horrible, imho. But 7 Diamonds was the worst bid of the auction.

"Maybe 6 Heart instead of 6 Spade had been a better way to the right slam, but I don´t know if this should show a very strong Heart one suiter, a cuebid confirming diamonds or this hand."

Maybe if you don't know what 6 Hearts means then partner won't either. Maybe that makes 6 Hearts a bad bid.

"If Cs don't break 5-0 you have 13 top tricks in NT, C or H. (The latter 2 if there is no ruff on the opening lead)."

And if ♣ do break 5-0 you have 13 top tricks in NT, C or H. (The latter 2 if there is no ruff on the opening lead.)

"4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem."

I'm not sure it solves the problem. Besides, Red vs White could you not want to play in 4NT rather than whip 4 Spades with something like Kx xx AKxxxxx xx? (Fearing a Spade ruff against 5m.)

"I voted South but I meant North of course."

Of course ... NOT!

"After 6D North need to pass IMHO. After the 6S i would be annoyed and probably bid 7 D too."

In my experience, being annoyed isn't conducive to good decision-making.

"7♦ lacks imagination, partner wants to play 6NT ot higher, he could had bid 7♦by himself"

Finally we're on to something ... South knows that North is void in Spades and isn't thrilled with the idea of playing in Diamonds.

"It seems that everyone made reasonable decisions on this auction. Only the result was silly. That happens sometimes."

I think South had a tough decision over 6 Spades. But in theory he should get it right (any bid but 7 Diamonds and we'll end up in a good spot.) What Diamond holding did he think North had when North didn't bid 7 Diamonds himself?

"However, all of this seems like resulting, and as N I think the push to a grand is too much."

Saying the push to the grand is too much seems like resulting. 13 cold tricks in 3 strains.

I agree with pretty much everything that Josh says. Could the folks who STILL think that I deserve all the blame please tell me what hand partner was playing me for when he bid 7 Diamonds (no KQxx of Diamonds, please, I'm not a sadist.)

Pard knows I'm void in ♠ and he knows I have misgivings about ♦ even though I know that that's his best suit. Am I not a heavy favorite to be 0-5-3-5? If not, why not?

http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/fetch...ayed=1193934498

[the hog]

""4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem."

I'm not sure it solves the problem. Besides, Red vs White could you not want to play in 4NT rather than whip 4 Spades with something like Kx xx AKxxxxx xx? (Fearing a Spade ruff against 5m.)"

Let me pass on a comment that was made to me by a top player many years ago. Aiming for precisely 10 tricks is fairyland, as it is too narrow a margin for which to aim. What he meant was that to bid 4NT with a view to playing there is a foolish target. Far better to use the 4NT bid as a get out. On your given hand for example, can you guarantee that the Ds will run? No, of course not, especially given the pre empt. (Of course if the Ds break badly, 5D may well go down as well, but quite probably less so.)

[jonottawa]

The_Hog, on Nov 2 2007, 11:29 PM, said:

""4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem."

I'm not sure it solves the problem. Besides, Red vs White could you not want to play in 4NT rather than whip 4 Spades with something like Kx xx AKxxxxx xx? (Fearing a Spade ruff against 5m.)"

Let me pass on a comment that was made to me by a top player many years ago. Aiming for precisely 10 tricks is fairyland, as it is too narrow a margin for which to aim. What he meant was that to bid 4NT with a view to playing there is a foolish target. Far better to use the 4NT bid as a get out. On your given hand for example, can you guarantee that the Ds will run? No, of course not, especially given the pre empt. (Of course if the Ds break badly, 5D may well go down as well, but quite probably less so.)

I don't agree that with the example hand I gave you wouldn't want to bid 4N natural at these colors if that bid were available. The threat of a Spade ruff is too high. That's a very specific hand, though.

I do agree that in general, you'll get more use/frequency out of using 4N as 2 suits and would have assumed that treatment at any other colors. I think 5♠ is still the right bid on the actual hand, though.

[Fluffy]

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you

What I'd like to know is what made you pick 5♠ then 6♠, dismishing other aproaches such as 5NT then 6♠, 5NT then 7♣ or 5♠ then 7♣. I don't mean any of those is really better, but they would at least had come to mind.

[jdonn]

Fluffy, on Nov 3 2007, 09:53 AM, said:

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you

If a grand slam auction is posted and blame is asked for, almost all people will always give it to whoever forced to the grand, regardless of what either player did or whether it was justified or not or whether other grands make, etc. That's just how people are.

[jonottawa]

Fluffy, on Nov 3 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

My advice jon is that you get better prepared for gettng all the balme if you post a assing blame post, it often goes to you

What I'd like to know is what made you pick 5♠ then 6♠, dismishing other aproaches such as 5NT then 6♠, 5NT then 7♣ or 5♠ then 7♣. I don't mean any of those is really better, but they would at least had come to mind.

I actually expected to receive most of the blame in the voting (for the reason Josh stated.) What I didn't expect was that well over half the folks (at least in the early voting) would give me 90-100% of the blame. That's just patently absurd when 7 is cold in 3 strains on this auction with that moose when partner had other options strongly suggested by the auction.

I don't have strong feelings about the 5♠ vs 5NT question. 5♠ is lower. 5♠ will NEVER get passed. 5♠ arguably suggests a ♠ void. 5♠ arguably suggests interest in a grand. 5♠ arguably gives you a chance to diagnose the big-time ♠ wastage that keeps you out of a bad grand. On the downside, pard might have taken 5♠ as exclusion.

I love 6♠ because in 2 bids I've managed to paint a clear picture of my exact hand. Pard knows with a fairly high degree of confidence that I have:

- / Axxxx / K?? / AK?xx

I don't think 7♣ paints nearly so clear a picture.

[benlessard]

"After 6D North need to pass IMHO. After the 6S i would be annoyed and probably bid 7 D too."

Quote

In my experience, being annoyed isn't conductive to good decision-making.

I agree. But bidding a grand that could cost 14+ Imps when im not sure about our agreement is still annoying to me.

Was 4Nt natural or 2suited take-out I don't know

Was 5S Exclusion ? I don't know.

Do 5S suggest the 7 level I don't know

What would 5Nt show ? we dont know.



It would be interesting to see if partner took ur 5S as exclusion or trying for 7 or just that the 3 strain are possible ? Im pretty sure your partner was annoyed too by your 6S.


Anyway i understand your point that over 6S partner had options other then 7D because.

You force him to 7 so youre not worried about Aces or Kings or spades.

So therefore you are worried about QJ or spots for trumps.

So 7H is definetly an option KQJ seems like a great support.

But you can have
Axxx
KQx
AKxxxx

where 7H goes down if H are 5-1

what about

Axxxx
KQJ
AKxxx

where you want to be in 7D but not 7C, 7H or 7Nt .



I admit that the more i think about the hand the more i think 7Nt is safer then 7D.

But remember your partner didnt have the time i had to think about it.


PS if possible i would invite to 7 with your hand not force. There is quite a few hand where partner will have wasted values in S or hands with a H doubleton and 7 will have no play.
You did hit partner with a maximum with not too much wastage and only 2S.