[jonottawa]

Scoring: IMP

P - 1NT - 4♠ - 5♠
P - 6♦ - P - 6♠
P - 7♦ - P - P - P

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[dicklont]

North's 5♠ was a great bid, any small slam is ok to be in. But 7♦ was a gamble. For a grand slam you have to pretty sure about 13 tricks, not hoping for it.

[matmat]

i don't like 6♦ much. has tolerance for clubs, and hearts.

[gwnn]

N was horrible, imho. He pushed his poor pd to the 6 level and then the 7 level? What if pd had had AQJx and 8 random outside pts? (KT98 9th is a 4♠ bid)

[Codo]

matmat, on Nov 2 2007, 03:14 PM, said:

i don't like 6♦ much. has tolerance for clubs, and hearts.

And how would you like to show these three suits? Maybe with a double?
If you bid 5 NT, this sounds more like a 3244 hand to me and could lead to some remarkable contracts opposite a partner with 3 Diamonds and 4 Clubs.

Tricky hand, if 4 NT instead of 5 Spade had been a two suiter, this had been no problem. As it was, you should give up on the grand after you heard 6 Diamond and play there. No good score, but better then 7 anything -1.

Maybe 6 Heart instead of 6 Spade had been a better way to the right slam, but I don´t know if this should show a very strong Heart one suiter, a cuebid confirming diamonds or this hand.

[the hog]

Why 7 anything -1? If Cs don't break 5-0 you have 13 top tricks in NT, C or H. (The latter 2 if there is no ruff on the opening lead).
I would bid 4NT to show 2 places to play, and after Sth's 5D bid showing willingness to play in D or H, I would bid 6H. I don't think I would get to 7 anything.

[Codo]

The_Hog, on Nov 2 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

Why 7 anything -1? If Cs don't break 5-0 you have 13 top tricks in NT, C or H. (The latter 2 if there is no ruff on the opening lead).
I would bid 4NT to show 2 places to play, and after Sth's 5D bid showing willingness to play in D or H, I would bid 6H. I don't think I would get to 7 anything.

1. After pd did bid 6 Diamond north did not know that 7 NT/C/H were making. So I think, he should give up after 6 Diamond.

2. 4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem, however, is this a situation for this tool?

[the hog]

Codo, on Nov 2 2007, 04:03 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Nov 2 2007, 05:49 PM, said:

Why 7 anything -1? If Cs don't break 5-0 you have 13 top tricks in NT, C or H. (The latter 2 if there is no ruff on the opening lead).
I would bid 4NT to show 2 places to play, and after Sth's 5D bid showing willingness to play in D or H, I would bid 6H. I don't think I would get to 7 anything.

1. After pd did bid 6 Diamond north did not know that 7 NT/C/H were making. So I think, he should give up after 6 Diamond.

2. 4 NT as two places to play is nice and I agree that this had solved the problem, however, is this a situation for this tool?

No Roland. Nth has a clear preference for H. Why on earth should he stop at 6D? At least you would get to the 6H slam.
Yes, I think this is the perfect situation for this bid and am surprised it has not been mentioned by others yet. Surely no one would play this as natural?

[helene_t]

I voted South but I meant North of course. WTP?

[benlessard]

I prefer 4Nt followed by 5S then a direct 5S because the hand is more 2 suited then 3 suited.

After 6D North need to pass IMHO. After the 6S i would be annoyed and probably bid 7 D too.



4Nt---2 suited T-out

5D--- i dont like clubs i prefer D or H

5S--- im thinking about 7

5Nt --- not sure

6H --- im chicken today

pass --- me too

grats to those in 7C or 7H

[Fluffy]

matmat, on Nov 2 2007, 06:14 AM, said:

i don't like 6♦ much. has tolerance for clubs, and hearts.

I think you are biased by full hand, 100% players would bid 6♦ with that hand if not seeing north.

[Fluffy]

gwnn, on Nov 2 2007, 08:02 AM, said:

N was horrible, imho. He pushed his poor pd to the 6 level and then the 7 level? What if pd had had AQJx and 8 random outside pts? (KT98 9th is a 4♠ bid)

Yeah, why would anyone think that partner woud like to play in NT with all his strenght in spades?

[Fluffy]

7♦ lacks imagination, partner wants to play 6NT ot higher, he could had bid 7♦by himself, so he must be searching for another thing, 7♦was not the right answer.


6♠ was wrong, if you wanna bid on, 7♣ is better than 6♠ since you obviously move to 7 anyway, at least you make it clear that you wanna play in clubs OR diamonds (give up on hearts, it is IMPs)

[mcphee]

I do feel the NT opening could have bid 6N rather than 7D. How can we possibly bid 6S now is beyond my understanding. This was just far too much. You got grabbed out of a possible grand, hard luck but bidding 6S to play a grand, in where we do not know is silly.

4NT any 2 suits makes more sense to me although I can understand the players involved may not have had this agreement in place.

Bottom line to me is the pair had zero chance to know if a grand was making, so all the blame goes to the 5S bidder who pushed his side to a grand.

[ArtK78]

This is a tough hand. Sometimes, preempts work.

Both players had to take their actions with less than perfect information. North's 5♠ is a reasonable action. South's 6♦ is a reasonable action. North's 7♦ could have been the winning call, but I hate bidding speculative grand slams.

It seems that everyone made reasonable decisions on this auction. Only the result was silly. That happens sometimes.

[neilkaz]

Driving to a small slam is fine with N's monster. I prefer 4NT as two places to play as well, but they may not have had that agreement.

However, N's 6♠ which from his hand is a push to a grand (since he cannot see PD's ace of ♠) is too aggressive and noting that 7♦ may have a trump loser.

However, N bid 6♠ rather than 7♦ so he must have a purpose in mind. 6♠ to me to showing that there are other places to play the Grand.

As S I hope I'd be alert enough to respond 6NT to 6♠ and if N realizes that I have ♠ stopped and passes, all is well. If he realized that I am not thrilled about 7♦ and bids 7♣ to give me a choice, I pass that.

However, all of this seems like resulting, and as N I think the push to a grand is too much.

.. neilkaz ..

[jdonn]

I think it's very reasonable for north to force to a grand. It would be amazingly unlucky if it didn't make in some strain, as things are it makes in 3 out of 4 strains. Over 6♠ I think south should bid 6NT (what can it hurt?) and as north I would probably bid 7♣ next, expecting at least partner won't pass it with xxx or something (because if doing that was right I wouldn't have bid 6♠.) I don't know what south would do over that, but I'm sure it's not 7♦ with that suit, so no matter what they will land on their feet. Probably I think south should pass so I like to think I would be in 7♣.

I give north 15% for forcing to a grand without a sure thing, even though I think it's right, and I give south 85% for a terrible 7♦ bid when his suit was awful given 6♦ and he had a perfectly reasonable alternative.

[han]

I don't think that south should bid 6NT instead of 7D. Given that partner has shown a huge hand with shortness, I think that south should be happy to play a grand. The only question is whether 7NT is better. While it is possible to construct hands where 7D makes and 7NT goes down (change the club king into the diamond queen) partner probably would have bid 7D with those hands. So I think south should be 7NT.

I think north bid too much in such a guessing situation. Partner had a perfect honors, that won't always be the case.

[han]

Hmm, Josh, is 6NT forcing here? I would interpret it as "bad fit, wasted spade honors".

[whereagles]

I think N didn't bid well. After a pree, you should put 7 out of the picture and concentrate on the likely 6. Thus, 5NT over 4♠ (pick-a-slam) is better. You'll end up in 6C/H, which makes easily.

North's 5♠ clearly had no plan to it and 6♠ only made things worse.