[awm]

Scoring: IMP

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IMPs, you are dealer. You open 1♦ (standard) and hear:

1♦ - 1♠ - P - 4♠

What is your call over 4♠?

If it matters:

(1) You are not playing negative free bids or transfers in competition.
(2) A jump shift from partner would've been fit-showing.
(3) Partner likes to raise in competition when holding 4+♦, would almost never raise on 3♦.
(4) Your 1NT opening is 15-17; opening 1♦ could certainly be 12-14/18-19 balanced with 4♦.

[han]

I'd bid 4NT, typically showing 6-4 or better. It is quite unlikely that hearts is our best strain since partner didn't make a negative double (not impossible because partner could be broke).

We do have 3 defensive tricks so doubling is a serious alternative. Passing could also easily be the winner, I'm not at all convinced that my 4NT is right so I'm eager to see the thoughts of others.

[mike777]

4nt.

yes 4s could go down and we make nothing. but the bidding is not over yet.

[jdonn]

I like 4NT here. Double could be the winner (or even pass I suppose) but I think I have enough offense to insist on playing it.

[Apollo81]

I will bid 4NT, but only because I think that some of the time they will bid 5 over 5 and go down one. I highly doubt that there can be a double game swing on this hand.

[Impact]

With due respect, given the suit opened, shouldn't 4NT show at least 4 HEARTS (if not 5H if your style allows you to open 1D with a 5card H suit)???

I tend to use the 4NT as extreme shape with at least 6 in suit opened (and usually 5+ in higher suit unless not possible eg opened 1H and same auction followed).

Hence double is a nicer bid (still implies D long)..and brings all suits into play (albeit partner less likely to hold long H and values as failed to make negative double playing traditionally..)

regards

[Echognome]

Impact, on Oct 31 2007, 05:01 PM, said:

With due respect, given the suit opened, shouldn't 4NT show at least 4 HEARTS (if not 5H if your style allows you to open 1D with a 5card H suit)???

I tend to use the 4NT as extreme shape with at least 6 in suit opened (and usually 5+ in higher suit unless not possible eg opened 1H and same auction followed).

Hence double is a nicer bid (still implies D long)..and brings all suits into play (albeit partner less likely to hold long H and values as failed to make negative double playing traditionally..)

regards

What are you bidding with:

♠ xx
♥ AKxx
♦ AQxx
♣ KQx

Certainly the only hands with only 4 diamonds that I can think of where you would be taking action now are the 18-19 balanced hands.

[Impact]

Sure, I should have been more precise and stated "likely" as a qualifier, but partner will assume the length, and I prefer to maintain the consistency of the approach to 4NT for ease of memory and dealing with a class of hands (eg 6D & 5H, perhaps 6+D & 4H depending on style) which leaves partner with some prospect of evaluating correctly....

regards

[han]

If I bid 4NT and then correct 5C to 5D, yes then am I showing diamonds and hearts.

[helene_t]

Somewhat surprised that everybody bid 4N here and everybody doubled in a similar poll with a 1246 when it went 1♣-(4♠)-p-(p)-?

I happened to be with the majority in both polls, but I found both very close and therefore expected some overlap.

[Halo]

Pass

I am placing RHO with five spades and a source of tricks in hearts (where else?).

I'm going to hope we can find a fourth trick in defence (assuming the first three stand up).

[FrancesHinden]

helene_t, on Nov 1 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

Somewhat surprised that everybody bid 4N here and everybody doubled in a similar poll with a 1246 when it went 1♣-(4♠)-p-(p)-?

I happened to be with the majority in both polls, but I found both very close and therefore expected some overlap.

I would double on this hand too.

[ArtK78]

I would double on this hand.

I don't find the spade holding to be the relevant factor. If anything, the fact that you are void means that partner rates to have more spades. The opps will have to deal with the bad spade break (yes, it could be 1-0, but that happens sometimes).

This hand could play in any of 4 strains. Double is the best way to get that message across.

4NT is a close second choice for me.

[Fluffy]

double, 3 places to play

[whereagles]

4NT. Hearts will probably only play well if pard has 6, so I'll try my luck in the minors.

[skjaeran]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 1 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

helene_t, on Nov 1 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

Somewhat surprised that everybody bid 4N here and everybody doubled in a similar poll with a 1246 when it went 1♣-(4♠)-p-(p)-?

I happened to be with the majority in both polls, but I found both very close and therefore expected some overlap.

I would double on this hand too.

Me too.

[awm]

It's possible that people ascribe different meanings to double and 4NT. It might be nice to comment on what people think these calls mean (I know there's been some discussion already of whether 4NT promises hearts).

My guess would be that if partner has 6♣ or 5+♦, either of 4NT or double will get us to a minor suit contract at the five level. This is likely to make (if partner has a few cards) or be a good sacrifice (if partner is broke, keeping in mind that partner's minor length will reduce our defensive potential). If partner is 5/5 in ♣+♥ we probably get to 5♣ either way as well, for a similar result.

The interesting cases are: (1) partner has 6♥ (2) partner has a balanced hand. When partner has heart length, I expect that double gets us to 5♥ whereas 4nt might lead to playing 5♦ in a 6-2 or 6-3 fit. How much worse is the minor suit contract likely to be?

On the other hand, partner having a balanced hand seems overwhelmingly the most likely scenario as well as one of the most important (since partner having 6♣, it doesn't much matter whether you double or bid 4NT). In this situation I'd expect partner to pass a double and get us to the better minor fit over 4NT (would you expect something different)?