[jillybean]

Playing in pay tournament, I was declarer in a hand where I may have been damage by misinformation. I called the TD and the outcome is ‘I can’t see the information (FD), there is no evidence they were playing xxx, I can’t make a ruling’

The TD is unable to access any information given via FD and imo you cannot expect anyone to make a reasonable ruling without this information.
How do TD's work around this?

[mycroft]

Ask and get the answer?
Have them copy it out of FD?
Rule "without evidence to the contrary" misexplanation rather than misbid? (note, this is a joke, but it makes a good stick if the TD doesn't get what she wants with the first two methods)

in RL, we don't have FD either...
Michael.

[Edit: I realize they can lie. But they eventually get caught, and a trip to abuse@ will be worse than 50+ good boards, one would think...]

[jillybean]

Michael, do you run tournaments on BBO?

[helene_t]

Difficult. If there's conflicting testimonies as to what the FD was saying, you could ask kibbers or you could judge on the basis of the movies and what they said, which account is more plausible. I hate this kind of problems, though. Whatever you decide, the "losers" of your verdict will feel that you say they were lying, and those who play less rationally, articulate worse, have the worse command of English and the worse command of the user interface, are in a weaker position regardless of who is right.

I think I would usually just let the result stand, informing both parties that I'm unable to decide, and make a note to see if the same players get involved in similar problems in the future.

I expect the flash version to solve this intimately by including FD messages in the movie, or something equivalent.

[blackshoe]

The TD's job is to rule on the basis of the evidence he gathers. Law 75 specifically enjoins him to rule MI rather than misbid "in the absence of evidence to the contrary". That doesn't mean he must rule misbid when he does have such evidence, it means he has to use his judgement. A TD who says he can't make a ruling doesn't know his job. Read Laws 84 and 85, particularly 85B.

I would rule on the basis there was MI unless the putative offending side can convince me otherwise. Either way, I would make a ruling - I would never say "I can't". That's just... mind-boggling.

[helene_t]

I meant "unable to decide what the truth was", not unable to make a ruling. Now I know I will have to make that explicit, tx Blackshoe

[blackshoe]

helene_t, on Oct 22 2007, 02:08 PM, said:

I meant "unable to decide what the truth was", not unable to make a ruling. Now I know I will have to make that explicit, tx Blackshoe

Ah. Clearly 85B territory. And you're welcome.

[jillybean]

The TD is lacking some basic information here; the information given along with the bid. That information is available to the TD both at the table and afterwards in the movie when the explanation is given manually. Why can’t the same information be available for FD explanations?

In fast, clocked tournaments, the TD is not going to have enough time to investigate this type of call. Even if the TD had the time and no other calls, the players are too busy playing the next board to be able to stop and provide information to the TD. I am not surprised they are unable to make a ruling.

[blackshoe]

If you set up a contest the nature of which you know will give you time problems in making rulings, it behooves you to establish regulations regarding how such rulings will be made. At least then you and your players will know what to expect.

[mycroft]

No, Jilly, I don't. I wish I had time to. And I do realize that it has unique issues. But the simple rules still apply.

- most people don't lie when asked by the TD.
- anyone who does, it tends to be obvious.
- if you have suspicions, but can't prove it, you put them on your list and they get less leeway the more times they're on your list.
- you don't have to believe them - that's why it's a judgment ruling.
- if you have a real judgment problem, tell 'em that you'll come back with a ruling later, and play on, and get some help. If you need a better bridge player than you, get that help. If you need another TD, go for that. Nice thing about BBO - there tend to be several of each available for a quick question (unlike in RL, where it's hard to find someone who isn't in the event and isn't going to play/has played the board to evaluate).

But yeah, it should be possible to get FD descriptions of bids by the TD.

Michael.