[jillybean]

Arrrg I posted the last reply before rushing out the door and before reading the replies fully, back to square one.

[helene_t]

Kathryn, I think you have an entry about this any-twosuiter issue on your blog, we have discussed it before

[jillybean]

Yes, thanks for noticing

[Walddk]

I hope Kathryn won't take offence when I say that this is yet another example of how confusion is a big risk when B/I's add convention upon convention. One person doesn't know what the Unusual 2NT shows (the guy who bid it with 4-5), and the other one thinks that a pull from 3♣ to 3♦ shows the red suits.

In my view you are much better off without those "silly" conventions. For the umpteenth time: get the basics right first! Now I have probably offended a bunch of beginners and intermediates, but so be it.

I teach hundreds of B/I's week after week in real life. Most of them ask questions about all sorts of conventions to add to their (non-existent) convention card. My reply is nearly always the same:

"Let's get back to that when you are ready for it".

When explained in a nice way, the players don't get offended. As a teacher I will be much happier when I get the correct answer to this question:

1♥ - 1♠
2♣

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

Roland

[Mbodell]

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 03:33 AM, said:

1♥ - 1♠
2♣

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.

[Walddk]

Mbodell, on Oct 23 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 03:33 AM, said:

1♥ - 1♠
2♣

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.

I agree with the first part (shape), but not with the second. What do you do with a good 16-17, even 18? Jump shift and force to game opposite what may be 5-6 hcp?

This is what I hear much too often I'm afraid. "Opener shows a minimum", but that is not correct. He shows a minimum or a medium, so the range is roughly 12-18.

Roland

[Mbodell]

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 03:52 AM, said:

Mbodell, on Oct 23 2007, 10:45 AM, said:

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 03:33 AM, said:

1♥ - 1♠
2♣

How many hearts and clubs does opener show, and what is the point range?

I'll bite as a self identified I player (assuming SA):

5+♥ and 4+♣ with anything from a decent 12 (maybe less if that's your style) to a bad 16. Some possible sample shapes include 1=5=3=4, 1=5=2=5, 2=5=1=4, 1=6=0=5.

I agree with the first part (shape), but not with the second. What do you do with a good 16-17, even 18? Jump shift and force to game opposite what may be 5-6 hcp?

This is what I hear much too often I'm afraid. "Opener shows a minimum", but that is not correct. He shows a minimum or a medium, so the range is roughly 12-18.

Roland

Interesting, is this a style thing, or am I just totally wrong and the method you describe really the only SA method?

I've played:
1♥-1♠
3♣

as a (by agreement) F1, not a strictly GF when done after a 1/1 response, and would do it with the good 16-18 unbalanced hands. You are right that I'd generally not settle for any contract below 3NT though. But as a responder I wouldn't have 5 HCP either, especially without a fit.

[vuroth]

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 03:33 AM, said:

get the basics right first! Now I have probably offended a bunch of beginners and intermediates, but so be it.

This is my second go-around at mastering SAYC, and this is the approach I'm taking (THIS time). It's amazing how you can put aside all the conventions and STILL have lots and lots of questions.

[jillybean]

Walddk, on Oct 23 2007, 01:33 AM, said:

I hope Kathryn won't take offence

No offence taken.
I'm not consciously trying to add conventions, often the answer to a problem is 'add a convention'. Hell, I have enough trouble understanding and remembering all the sequences, is it forcing, non-forcing, bidding up the line, bidding higher ranking suit first, how many am I showing and so on.
I know half the messes I get myself in wouldnt happen if I had the fundamentals right and agreed on.