[mike777]

gwnn, on Oct 19 2007, 02:50 AM, said:

K8xx
J987xx
x
xx

pd deals, all red imps, opps are somewhat better players, RHO opens 1♣.

pass

I guess I better read the comments, wtp?

[han]

Agree with Arend, even very good opponents have a harder time in competitive auctions.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Oct 19 2007, 04:42 PM, said:

Agree with Arend, even very good opponents have a harder time in competitive auctions.

But I wrote more than he did and gave the same answer! You are just trying to reduce my agreement ratio. Jerk.

[pclayton]

Josh, all of your reasons are valid if we held, xxxx, 9xxxxx, x, xx.

Is this still an overcall for you?

[han]

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 04:52 PM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 19 2007, 04:42 PM, said:

Agree with Arend, even very good opponents have a harder time in competitive auctions.

But I wrote more than he did and gave the same answer! You are just trying to reduce my agreement ratio. Jerk.

Love you too Josh!

The reason I said I agreed with Arend is that I also don't have strong feelings about whether passing or overcalling is better. I agree with both of you that bidding has obvious plusses that the Obvious Passers seem to ignore.

[han]

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

Josh, all of your reasons are valid if we held, xxxx, 9xxxxx, x, xx.

Is this still an overcall for you?

If you bid 1H with the hand in question and partner raises to 2H or 3H then you don't have to be too worried. You will probably go down but your playing strength may be sufficient so that the penalty (if they nail you) is not so bad.

Obviously, the weaker you are the more likely you go for a really big number. So while some of the plusses remain the same, the minusses get larger. Also, my partner takes into account that I might overcall on a 4-count sometimes (though I don't often do it), but he will never play me for this hand.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

Josh, all of your reasons are valid if we held, xxxx, 9xxxxx, x, xx.

Is this still an overcall for you?

Well you want a heart lead less, are more likely to get killed in a sacrifice, and no longer have any chance of talking the opponents out of game. But many of the reasons are still valid.

I would rather bid 1♥ with that than pass with the original hand.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 02:18 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 05:03 PM, said:

Josh, all of your reasons are valid if we held, xxxx, 9xxxxx, x, xx.

Is this still an overcall for you?

Well you want a heart lead less, are more likely to get killed in a sacrifice, and no longer have any chance of talking the opponents out of game. But many of the reasons are still valid.

I would rather bid 1♥ with that than pass with the original hand.

By the way, I still don't like a call on the given hand for the reasons given.

Here's why I asked.

It seems too often the opponents are bidding at the one level with nothing more that 13 cards. Why do we need to completely change our system as responder?

Matt and I have agreed that after 1♣ (2+) - (1♦) that our entire system is ON.

Double = 4♥
1♥ = 4♠
1♠ = ♦'s or a hand that doesn't want to declare NT, etc..

2♦ remains a limit raise in diamonds.

1♣ - (1♥) doesn't seem to be much of a concern either

Double = 4-5 spades
1♠ = as above

yada, yada.

Since Josh and his posse feel the need to butt in with hands like, Phil and MikeH need to develop effective countermeasures

[han]

I know it is probably useless to overcall 1D against you and Matt, but most would agree that competitive auctions are less well-defined than uncontested. And if I overcall 1H and my partner raises to 2H next then even you might have a harder time. If not then I should probably give up, you are too good.

[the hog]

There is a huge difference between overcalling (1C) with 1D and with 1H.
A 1D overcall doesn't take much away and I would want a significantly better hand than the posted one. There is no doubt that most players have an easier time in an unobstructed auction rather than coping with interference, hence the 1H overcall. Josh has already presented a sound argument for overcalling. Btw look at some of the overcalls made by the Italians. (Yeah, yeah, I know they didn't win :-) )

[mike777]

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 07:10 PM, said:

There is a huge difference between overcalling (1C) with 1D and with 1H.
A 1D overcall doesn't take much away and I would want a significantly better hand than the posted one. There is no doubt that most players have an easier time in an unobstructed auction rather than coping with interference, hence the 1H overcall. Josh has already presented a sound argument for overcalling. Btw look at some of the overcalls made by the Italians. (Yeah, yeah, I know they didn't win :-)  )

If the Italians are overcalling these hand types..someone pls start posting them....
If WC players are overcalling these handtypes ...someone pls start posting them....

[the hog]

Mike, examples of weak, and I mean WEAK, overcalls have been posted frequently in the past. There was one hand, Versace I think, which looked something like
Kx Jxxxxx and out - similar to the posted example, eh?
btw Nicola Gardener, ex women's wc, (so I guess you would call her wc??), believes the requirements are a 5 card Major.

[MFA]

2♥. Your turn lefty. The board tends to be a 3NT/6mi decision for the opponents, and this won't make their task any easier.

The_Hog, on Oct 20 2007, 05:17 AM, said:

Mike, examples of weak, and I mean WEAK, overcalls have been posted frequently in the past. There was one hand, Versace I think, which looked something like
Kx Jxxxxx and out - similar to the posted example, eh?

I think I know the hand you're referring to, but I wonder where it's from.

Well, here's another disgusting overcall from Versace (BB final 05, #11):

♠ J7432
♥ K97
♦ Q
♣ 9732

1♦ - pass - 1♥ - 1♠! (nonevul)

The bidding continued 2♥ from opener and 3NT from Lauria, all pass. In spite of this great dummy, Lauria didn't manage more than one overtrick.

Personally, I love the style, in which a defensive pass at the 1-level denies a 5-card major.