[gwnn]

K8xx
J987xx
x
xx

pd deals, all red imps, opps are somewhat better players, RHO opens 1♣.

[helene_t]

Pass. Don't see much point in bidding with this hand. If I really have to bid I would make up a 1NT overcall, but I don't really believe in that kind of jokes.

Playing Canape overcalls maybe it's a different story.

OK in practice I would bid 2♥ but I try to appear sane on the forum.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, but there will be days I bid 2H,
but those days are rare.

And partner needs to be aware that a
2H bid I can be fairly frisky in 3rd seat.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

2 ♥

Good opps will not play me for 4 Spade which may help us on defence.
They may play me for real hearts which may help us.

Okay we may give pd the wrong picture too, but I will take the risk this time.

[the hog]

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

[hrothgar]

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 01:44 PM, said:

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

I would probably bid 1♥, but only because partner is a passed hand and isn't likely to hand me. If the auction had started with RHO, I'd pass.

[Free]

2♥, pressure bid. Partner passed, so he shouldn't go very far...

[dake50]

Partner opens light, so I see 45%+ they slam. I want them to demote 'wasted' in my suit. Wasted H-AKQ or S-AQJ which? I choose 1H.

[whereagles]

obvious 2♣ michaels

[mikeh]

pass

Bidding deserves to go 1100.

Just because partner is a passed hand doesn't mean he's broke, nor does it mean you have a free pass to be an idiot. Red at imps??? When what defence you hold is in the other major... on a J high suit without the 10?? Gimme a break.

[ArtK78]

mikeh, on Oct 19 2007, 09:00 AM, said:

pass

Bidding deserves to go 1100.

Just because partner is a passed hand doesn't mean he's broke, nor does it mean you have a free pass to be an idiot. Red at imps??? When what defence you hold is in the other major... on a J high suit without the 10?? Gimme a break.

All red at IMPs and this is a problem?

I agree with Mike. If bidding works on this hand, I will get 1100 on the next hand when the same player makes a similar bid.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 05:44 AM, said:

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

Heck yeah. I hope my opponents always pass here.

[pclayton]

mikeh, on Oct 19 2007, 06:00 AM, said:

pass

Bidding deserves to go 1100.

Just because partner is a passed hand doesn't mean he's broke, nor does it mean you have a free pass to be an idiot. Red at imps??? When what defence you hold is in the other major... on a J high suit without the 10?? Gimme a break.

Bidding deserves to get nailed AND have a playable spot in spades.

Not close.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 07:50 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 05:44 AM, said:

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

Heck yeah. I hope my opponents always pass here.

I hope my opponents always bid here. With 4 spades, what are you preempting Josh?

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 11:10 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 07:50 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 05:44 AM, said:

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

Heck yeah. I hope my opponents always pass here.

I hope my opponents always bid here. With 4 spades, what are you preempting Josh?

I don't care how illogical this sounds, but this is one of the few times I don't feel the need to justify my choice to 'know' that I'm right. Bidding interferes with their auctions and simply works, and you are allowed to have a fit too you know. What is illogical is all this talk about 1100s, as though the opponents making some penalty pass at the 1 level when I have six trumps is what should be worrying me. In fact bidding on this hand is much safer than on a random 3523 10 count.

I await word on how passing gets us to spades.

[ArtK78]

There will not be too many 1100 scores at the one level (but there will be some). The 1100 scores will occur most often when partner actually believes that you have either a good suit or a good hand or both when you make a vulnerable overcall at IMPs and starts bidding.

I know that is what I expect when my partners bid vul at IMPs.

[cherdano]

In my experience it works surprisingly well to bid on hands like this, I am not sure whether I would bid but I might, make the hand just little bit better and I am pretty sure I would.

I agree with Josh, -1100 is quite unlikely that the passers should find a better reason for their choice (and of course there are betterreasons).

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 08:39 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 11:10 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 19 2007, 07:50 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 19 2007, 05:44 AM, said:

1H. Last time I looked I had a few of them, didn't I? Prefer 1H to 2H as the suit isn't great and pd may bid 1S.

Wimps will pass.

Heck yeah. I hope my opponents always pass here.

I hope my opponents always bid here. With 4 spades, what are you preempting Josh?

I don't care how illogical this sounds, but this is one of the few times I don't feel the need to justify my choice to 'know' that I'm right. Bidding interferes with their auctions and simply works, and you are allowed to have a fit too you know. What is illogical is all this talk about 1100s, as though the opponents making some penalty pass at the 1 level when I have six trumps is what should be worrying me. In fact bidding on this hand is much safer than on a random 3523 10 count.

I await word on how passing gets us to spades.

You're right - by your comments about taking up space, I thought you meant you were bidding 2♥. 1100 is unlikely.

What are very likely are any of the following:

1. LHO bids 1♠ and pard gets off to the wonderful start of the ♥K against a spade contract or 3N.

2. LHO bids 1S or makes a negative x. Pard bids 1N on his 9 count and RHO finds a sporting double on his 19 count.

3. The opponents avoid 3N when pard has Axx of hearts.

1♥ takes up one step. LHO can't bid 1♦ or 1♥, but has a negative double to split the spade hands. 1♥ is noise.

While we might have a spade fit, its not that big of a concern to me. What does concern me is that we really aren't preempting anything since we are looking at the spade suit.

What you are saying IS logical. Pard is a passed hand, and its fun (and sometimes effective) to cramp their space. Bidding could work, especially when pard can take a big bounce and preempt their minor suit slam (against this, the opps may figure out they don't have any heart wastage).

I'd like you to come up with some cases of how bidding is effective.

[Halo]

Pass.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Oct 19 2007, 01:00 PM, said:

You're right - by your comments about taking up space, I thought you meant you were bidding 2♥. 1100 is unlikely.

What are very likely are any of the following:

1. LHO bids 1♠ and pard gets off to the wonderful start of the ♥K against a spade contract or 3N.

2. LHO bids 1S or makes a negative x. Pard bids 1N on his 9 count and RHO finds a sporting double on his 19 count.

3. The opponents avoid 3N when pard has Axx of hearts. 

....

I'd like you to come up with some cases of how bidding is effective.

Sure, and I can even do it by starting with your examples.

1. As opposed to the wonderful diamond he was otherwise leading against 3NT from KJxxx? Ask yourself whether you prefer partner lead a heart or one of your short suits against 3NT in general, ignoring the cases where partner has a suit of his own so good that he will lead it regardless.

2. I will bid 2♥ of course. My Kxxx opposite partner's spade stopper fits nicely, and needless to say partner wouldn't be foolish enough to be 4144 or something when he chose to declare 1NT at both-vul rather than playing defense against (from his perspective) either 1NT or a notrump/suit contract that is even higher.

3. True. But firstly that 3NT could be making anyway. Secondly if partner was on lead he wasn't leading a heart if you didn't bid them so the opponents just stole an unmakeable game (see 1.) And thirdly, maybe partner has a maximum pass and we talked them out of game because RHO downgrades his KT doubleton of hearts.

By the way, 3. is much more an argument against overcalling on a good suit than on a bad suit.

Now consider the difficulties even directly over your overcall, that people often underestimate. Let me just assume some very common systems for the opponents in all this.

LHO can't bid 1♦.
If LHO has a good club raise, instead of bidding 2♣ over which he might have a very nice system, he has to bid 2♥ which is two steps higher and over which most people don't play anything.
If LHO has a game forcing balanced hand, instead of bidding (say) 2NT he has to bid 3NT.
LHO gains systems that are designed for effective competition, like fit jumps, but loses ones that are designed for effective slam bidding, like strong jump shifts. Which do you think is more valuable to him when you are this weak opposite a passed hand?
Partner can raise preemptively in which case we very likely have a good sacrifice. Alternatively he can raise strongly which can talk the opponents out of game (or slam!) Everyone says oh this wouldn't happen to me, I bid my own cards and trust my side not theirs. But believe me, it happens.
We can even find a good sacrifice against spades (especially against spades if the opponents have a fit there, I count 3 ruffs in dummy!)
LHO bids 2♣ and partner doubles. This was probably the only way to find your spade fit, other than similar auctions. This may even lead to a good save.

Essentially I can summarize all the above by saying you are correct, 1♥ is just noise. But you severely underestimate the effectiveness of noise.