[Echognome]

keylime, on Nov 20 2007, 09:59 AM, said:

Well, sounds like there was the give-and-take that was needed for a breakthrough. Let's hope that this can be buried and not have any ill will as an aftermath.

Additionally, we should laud Jan Martel for her leadership and sensible approach to this very contentious issue.

Here here. Always difficult to find a good resolve for such a contentious issue.

[keylime]

Matter of fact, I'm going to offer Jan and Chip a bottle of northern Virginia's best white or red wine (for the record, I am torn between Lake Anna Winery and Horton's Vineyard - both are excellent) as a thank you gift.

[fred]

pclayton, on Nov 20 2007, 06:09 PM, said:

I'm glad they cleared this up before San Francisco.

Me too!

Although the actual tournament doesn't start for a few days, I am in SF now. I was expecting this to be one strange Nationals (in a bad way). Now I am actually thinking that this might be a strange Nationals in a good way. American bridge players now have something to celebrate beyond the Gold Medals. It would not surprise me if the resolution of this incident will help bring us closer together.

Big congrats and thanks to both sides for working things out!!!

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

Woot!

Glad to hear that this has all blown over...
Lets all hope that it stays dead and buried

[jocdelevat]

I love americans and USA. The end of this controversy shows the happy end we all know from american movies.I think the small marks on their image wil go away in time and the country become again the model for democracy and balance the things in the right way.

[glen]

From a link on Stacy's blog (http://stacyjacobs.com/), Jill Levin, Debbie Rosenberg and Gail Greenberg were on the CBS morning show this morning:

CBS Morning Show Video

As discussed on the show, the NPC of the Venice Cup team, Gail Greenberg, at this time, is not part of the settlement. Hence her name does not appear on the joint statement at this time.

[Foxx]

Well, I for one, am glad that someone in a high place finally woke up, smelled the coffee, and saw reason.

Having backed down all the way, the USBF looks a lot better than it seemed like they would.

Indeed, the only one who looks at all bad in this whole stew, is The First Monkey.

[finnigan1]

If memory serves me right the ACBL has in th4e past endorsed political and acts of war ; conducted by the US Military on the behest of the current administration.
Between supporting the troups and supporting an open act of warfare is 2 things.
When an uncaused act of war is initiated by any NATION, then the very people that it claims to represent have a right to claim their displeasure in any form that does not cause to brake the LAW nor cause harm to anyone.
From my perspective these ladies have shown to one and all where they stand on the issues brought about by the current White House Administration; as guarentied under the US Contitution [ FREEDOOM OF SPEECH] .
In the poster there was, NO ENDORSEMENT OF VIOLENCE , but a statement that they do not agree with President Bush's policies of preemptive warfare; in stating that he was not their choice.
In my upbringing POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS personal views aree taken very seriously, and as such are dicussed in public only as a last option, when either the Clergy and/or the Political ruling body is acting agains the better interest of the common good.
It may not of been the best platform to make such a statement; but it did get the message across.
For those woundering the ACBL CEO and Board of Directors have supported the war in Iraq, as well as honoring a Col. [field Doctor] at the Chicago Nationals 2006 in the course of the Goodwill Commitee.
Myself sitting but a few meters away from the gentleman felt ill at ease about these actions, mind you this gentleman was involve in promoting Bridge amongst the Military serving in Iraq; in that I find no fault but to use platforms like the ACBL Goodwill Commitee banquet , is beyound my keen to keeping politics out of Bridge.

[critters]

I just watched the video and was frankly quite surprised by the complete lack of remorse and actual defiance displayed by some of Venice Cup players. A hearing should be held to clear this issue up for players representing the USA in future international competitions.

[scordatura]

In an earlier age George W. Bush would have been confined to the attic instead of holding high office. The same day the "I didn't vote for Bush" story broke, the results of a recent poll were released, showing that a majority of Americans believe that Bush has committed impeachable offences.


The impeachment of Cheney was referred to committee by a solid majority http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-bri...resolution.html

and it's high time that a similar action be taken against Bush.

Has there ever been another president of which americans were ashamed? I wonder. I don't blame anyone who wants to hold up an "I didn't vote for Bush" sign.

[Walddk]

scordatura, on Nov 21 2007, 12:25 AM, said:

Has there ever been another president of which americans were ashamed? I wonder.

Richard Nixon and Watergate? Perhaps some Americans were not ashamed, but a lot of foreigners think they should have been.

Roland

[1eyedjack]

Nixon is a close call. But for his corruption, he was one of their more competent presidents. Nowadays we plebs just assume that our leaders are corrupt through and through. It is just bad form to get caught.

[the hog]

judy3, on Nov 20 2007, 11:06 PM, said:

Who but Americans would make such a poster? Can anyone see a group from anyother country making such a poster? Think about it.  It is true that we have freedom of speech, but why would Americans act in such a manner? I would hope that regardless of political opinions, we would be Americans first. What has happened to patriotism, but more importantly, manners? How sad that these women would act in such a way. I compare them to the Dixie Chicks. Maybe they should just leave the USA. 

I'd make up one about little lying Johnny Howard tomorrow.

[kenrexford]

I agree that it makes sense, I suppose, to end these hostilities.

However, the VCC has recognized the legitimacy of asking that players please not use the platform for political statements in the future, pretty-please?

This frankly makes me sick. If you cannot even concede that you were a tad offensive to many of those who supported you, in the face of dropped charges, then there is something wrong with you.

[ducky_rh]

I believe that such a demonstration shows compete disrespect for one's country and for the OFFICE of the President, and I consider their act to be repugnant and as improper as it could get.

I will forever hold those women in contempt for their action. It was disrespectful, uncalled for in the situation, and most of all, completely juvenile.

[ksk2005]

hrothgar, on Oct 13 2007, 01:51 PM, said:

Walddk, on Oct 13 2007, 08:43 PM, said:

Echognome, on Oct 13 2007, 07:36 PM, said:

I also think a congratulations are in order for Jan.  The U.S. teams finished 1st in the VC and the SB and 2nd in the BB.

Indeed, but a sad incident occurred during the presentation tonight. When the American ladies received their gold medals on the podium, they displayed a poster with

WE DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH

Hardly the place for a politcal statement in my opinion. I never thought that something like this would happen in bridge circles. The question is now whether the WBF/ACBL/USBF will take some kind of action.

I would hardly call this a "sad incident".

I don't have a problem if celebrities chose to take an active role promoting different causes. There have been times when I wished a celebrity would shut the ^*$#& up, however, that generally occurs when I

(a) agree with their position and
( think that they are being inarticulate

The US women's team (apparently) felt strongly enough about this subject that they chose to display a poster. So be it...

I would consider any kind of action by the WBF or the USBF completely unreasonable.

For what its worth, if I were hiring pros, I'd be a lot more likely to hire a member of this team after the incident in question than before it.

I think that there is a great danger that foreigners will stop distinguishing between American citizens and the idiots running the White House. its useful to remind them that not everyone agrees with the chimp...

I don't understand why a bridge player would get upset if another group of bridge players make a statement about their politicians. I have great respect to a great majority of Americans, however, I can not say the same about their president.

[demeter]

The last word

(aka beating a dead horse)

There is no relationship between bridge acumen, skill, and/or talent combined with luck in winning a big bridge event and any statement of for whom (or for not whom) individuals did or did not vote.

Which statement is irrelevant to the competition (and the award) at hand.

The vote preferences of the Venice Cup team members are their own private business. Nobody cares.

These women might be surprised to learn that USA currency (well, not the dollar) isn't as low in the world as they might imagine.

As for the CBS video and Jill Levin claiming to have received accolades from (some ) French players in Shanghai, M. Sarkozy has addled a lot of "French minds" recently with his pro USA positions. You all should read some of the contemporary essays of Jean Francois Revel to get a less "monolithic" view of France.

As for impeachment of GWB or D. Cheney, even Nancy Pelosi and Hairy (aka Harry) Reid understand the Constitution well enough to know that that dog won't run.

[dbrenner]

Hello, everyone : )

I think that everybody has the right to express themselves in anyway and in anyplace if something really affect their lives. To express a negative feeling is a way to tell people that you are having trouble with something. In that case, the message was raw, but also very clear. And in my opinion, to be clear is to be true and to be true is what we are missing nowadays. To hide our opinion and our feelings may lead us into a fake world and it could be the end of truth in our lives. It's a very romantic point of view, but it is also certain. I understand how difficult is to be happy when the political leader of your country takes decisions you would never tell your friends or your children to take. Even if this leader was legitimately elected. I may be naive. But, it is to better be that way than not to say anything.

I do not mean any insult to anyone. I am just expressing my thougts...and my feelings. Isn't that good?

Good luck everyone! : )

[jpinboca]

I haven't the patience to read 47 pages of postings, and it's just possible that someone said this before, but--

ALL THEY SAID WAS "WE DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH"

1. There was no profanity.

2. It was, presumably, true.

3. It casts no especial aspersions. It does not, for example, say "BUSH IS A DRAFT DODGER"---also arguably true but argumentative. It does not say "BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL" though he is in fact viewed that way in many parts of the world.

For those of you who compare this with the Dixie Chicks incident, you are all quite correct. The Chicks had every right to do what they did, and so did the Venice Cup Ladies. It was done tastefully and as far as I can see violated no rules.

All the sanctimony about how the game of bridge was sullied by this is just offensive hogwash. And to the poster above who suggested that the Dixie Chicks and anyone who supported them should leave the country, I invite YOU to leave, since you clearly are uncomfortable with messy democracy.

Can we all just grow up now and get back to winkling and strip squeezing each other?

[blackshoe]

demeter, on Nov 20 2007, 07:54 PM, said:

You all should read some of the contemporary essays of Jean Francois Revel to get a less "monolithic" view of France.

I"ve heard it said that there are as many political parties in France as there are voters.