[Chamaco]

KO Team match, all Vuln,
24 boards left, we are behind about 10 imps

Pard deals and open 1H, RHO passes

You hold

AQT9x-x-QJT98x-A

You are playing SAYC + conventions (not 2/1).
3 diamonds would be a reversed Bergen raise (= 4 card raise in hearts, 6/7-9 hcp).

What do you bid ?
And what is the plan if pard bids clubs at his second round ?

[Free]

2♦, what's the problem? Reverse later to show your strength...

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 9 2004, 01:04 PM, said:

2♦, what's the problem? Reverse later to show your strength...

Ok, so

1♥:2♦
3♣

What do you bid now ?
4♠ is Splinter and 3♠ is 4th suit forcing.

If you bid 3♠,
pard responds 3NT and you want to investigate slam.

[inquiry]

Well, it is quite alright to begin...

1♥-2♦
3♣-3♠

This goes back to the discussion of this exact auction in an earlier thread this week http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...?showtopic=2068.

If partner bids 3NT, you rebid 4♠ to show this 6-5 slammy hand

If partner rebids 4♣, the same.

If partner rebids 4♦, pull out blackwood

I would not jump to 4NT with this hand over 3NT (as opposite two small ♦ you have no chance for slam like you did in the earlier hand).

Ben

[Chamaco]

inquiry, on Feb 9 2004, 01:58 PM, said:

If partner bids 3NT, you rebid 4♠ to show this 6-5 slammy hand

Thanks, this pointer is useful !!

But something is still unclear.

1)
Would 4♠ be forcing or can be passed ?

2)
Opener's hand is something like:

KJ8-AQJTx-x-KTxx

What shd opener bid after 4♠?

Responder needs a cue in diamonds, but textbooks say not to cuebid shortness in partner's length.
5♦ could be read as signoff. Or It could be read as honor cuebid, filling the diamonds if responder had AQJTxx rather than QJT9xx.
5♣ still leaves the diamonds as a problem for responder.

Anyway I think we should be in 6 spades, there are too many chances (dummy reversal or dropping of diamonds honors).

Of course one may say that this hand shd not go to slam , but the same questions would arise if opener's hand were a bit stronger:

KQ8-AKJTx-x-ATxx

Any thoughts ?

[the hog]

A few points here:

1♥-2♦
3♣-3♠

This hand KJ8-AQJTx-x-KTxx which you posted does not qualify for a 3C bid. It is about a King short.
A more appropriate sequence would be:
1H 2D
2H 2S
2N 3S

Responder's sequence is not a weak one, so with KQ8-AKJTx-x-ATxx I would definitely move after responder's 4S bid.

[Free]

Exactly, but I think the problem is the original player bid 1♠, his partner bid 2♣ and they got into trouble. When you bid a new suit on 3 level you're strong. So the sequence 1♥-2♦-3♣ is strong, GF, and with this hand you wont have any trouble to find slam after that. If partner is weak, he should rebid 2♥ or 2NT...

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 9 2004, 10:04 PM, said:

Exactly, but I think the problem is the original player bid 1♠, his partner bid 2♣ and they got into trouble.  When you bid a new suit on 3 level you're strong.  So the sequence 1♥-2♦-3♣ is strong, GF, and with this hand you wont have any trouble to find slam after that.  If partner is weak, he should rebid 2♥ or 2NT...

Good point.

Let's assume opener's hand is slightly stronger:
KQ8-AKJTx-x-ATxx

which does qualify as a full 3♣ bid.

after

1♥:2♦
3♣:3♠
3NT:4♠

1) is 4S forcing ?
2) how shd the bidding proceed ?

[Free]

This hand is impossible, because I have ♠Q and ♣A... (Good point again? )

[inquiry]

[quote name='Chamaco' date='Feb 9 2004, 07:32 PM'] Let's assume opener's hand is slightly stronger:
KQ8-AKJTx-x-ATxx

which does qualify as a full 3[cl] bid.

after

1[he]:2[di]
3[cl]:3[sp]
3NT:4[sp]

1) is 4S forcing ? [/Quote]

No. But it is strongly invintational. If you want to force, force with 5NT, 5[sp], or even stronger invite with 4NT

[quote]2) how shd the bidding proceed ?[/quote]

As free pointed out... now you need a new deck, too many club aces and spade queens. [/quote]
Here is a hand from the topflight event today. It falls direclty into the type of hand being discussed in this thread. The results are not scientific, but here is what happened.

Scoring: IMP

---

3CE+3 -170
4HW+1 -650
6CW= -1370
6CW= -1370
6CW= -1370
6CW= -1370

The 3[cl] contract was a polish [cl] problem. East opened 1[cl], the bidding then went 1[cl]-1[he]; 1[sp]-3[cl] all pass... so not relevant to 2/1 discussion.

The 4[he] contract had to deal with a 1[sp] overcall and a 2[sp] raise.

So that leaves the 4 slam bids. Two of the fine players started with 2[cl], and the other two with 2[he]. Here were the auctions...

1[di]-2[cl]
3[cl]-4NT
5[he]-6[cl]-all pass

1[di]-2[cl]
2[sp]-3[he]
4[cl]-4NT
5[he]-6[cl] all pass

1[di]-1[he]
1[sp]-2[cl]
2NT-6[cl]-all pass

1[di]-1[he]
1[sp]-2[cl]
2NT-3[cl]
3NT-4[di] (4[di]alerted as splinter
4[sp]-6[cl] All pass

How would I have bid this hand? I play Kokish relays after 1[di]-2[cl]. I will not go into the full structure here, but with opener's hand, I can freely raise to 3[cl] to show a weak [cl] raise. Finding the fit at the 3 level allows the slam to be quickly bid.

Ben

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 10 2004, 12:51 AM, said:

This hand is impossible, because I have ♠Q and ♣A... (Good point again? )

Obviously, in the latter cae, I was referring only to opener's hand, dropping the previous definition of responder's hand

I was giving up the problem of responder and putting myself in the shoes of opener who should bid after this sequence:

1♥:2♦
3♣:3♠
3NT:4♠

Holding the given hand:
KQ8-AKJTx-x-ATxx

and forgetting the hand I showed you before for responder

[Free]

I'd bid 5NT, to ask to bid grand with a tophonour ♠. If he doesn't have ♦A, why would he start by bidding 2♦??

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 10 2004, 10:37 AM, said:

I'd bid 5NT, to ask to bid grand with a tophonour ♠. If he doesn't have ♦A, why would he start by bidding 2♦??

Thanks !

[Chamaco]

Free, on Feb 10 2004, 10:37 AM, said:

I'd bid 5NT, to ask to bid grand with a tophonour ♠. If he doesn't have ♦A, why would he start by bidding 2♦??

Is it possible that responder holds

AJT9x-x-KQJT9x-K

?

Should responder bid differently (rather than bidding 2♦ followed by 3♠ and 4♠) with this hand which is one ace off the grand ?

[Free]

If you reverse a Major you should be slam ambicious. But with the hand you give me (very nice hand btw), you only have a first round control in 1 suit. Also, ♣K might be lost HCP. So with this hand I'd rather choose to bid 1♠ after a 1♥ opening. But yes it might be possible, and you'll lose a lot of imps...

However, if your partner showed a 3-5-1-4 (the bidding shows that because of the 5NT bid), your partner is counting on ♦A, so you might want to bid 6♠ and take the blame if it's 7...

[Chamaco]

Thanks to all who contributed, it was very nice to hear comments, I found bidding this hand very cumbersome , so you were all of great help !!

[Trpltrbl]

2 ♦ to start and then after pd responds I will bid ♠ and I will bid ♠ again when it is my turn. Showing a 6-5 hand. Law of symmetry might suggest that pd has similair hand in 2 other suits. there is no rel way or convention to figure out how to bid 6-5 hands like that. And if there is maybe that person should get a life From my feeling is seems 6 ♦ is probably the best place to play since I only need 1 ♦ honor in pd's hand for the suit to be good. So go as slow as possible and try to find all this out, 7 is still in picture too.

Mike