[Fluffy]

bid a pass

[hrothgar]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

What if you had

♠5
♥Q7654
♦864
♣8653

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart?

This one is weak enough that I would pass. The 1♠ psyche doesn't appeal to me. (Too much chance that we buy a Spade raise from partner).

If I were to psyche a Spade, I'd prefer to do so in the context of a strong club, canape type system where

1. 1♦ tends to deny 4+ Spades
2. 1♦ tends to deny 15+ points

1♠ is a LOT more attractive if we have reason to suspect that the opponents have a Spade game. Even here, I'd prefer to have a bit more Diamond length.

[cherdano]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 12:17 PM, said:

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

What if you had

♠5
♥Q7654
♦864
♣8653

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass

I still bid one heart, and if partner bids 4♥ on AQx AJTx AKJx xx I still have a decent chance of making...

[Quantumcat]

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

[mike777]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 01:28 PM, said:

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

At fav, yes and a suit, yes the suit maybe 5432.
Partner rebids, normal, nothing fancy.

All of this is not that common so not a big issue to worry about.

[cherdano]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 12:28 PM, said:

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

No. I would pass with Jxxx Jxxx xx Jxx But I never pass hands that have good playing strength in case they find a major fit. (And partner knows that I bid with QTxxx in a major suit.)

[mikeh]

mike777, on Oct 3 2007, 01:38 PM, said:

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 01:28 PM, said:

So a response to an opening bid for your partnership shows 13 cards?

At fav, yes and a suit, yes the suit maybe 5432.
Partner rebids, normal, nothing fancy.

All of this is not that common so not a big isue to worry about.

I trust you either pre-alert that you play that minor suit openings are forcing or that you at least alert the response when it arises: else you are playing by rules and agreements that the opps are entitled to know about yet are kept secret

[mike777]

...."I just talked to Bob Hamman about this hand and he said he wouldn't pass with ANY hand when white/red (and this is a guy who is generally considered conservative for his level). Obviously the reasoning is that life is so much harder for the opponents when we have bid 1N."

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...15&#entry217886

[pclayton]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 10:17 AM, said:

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

What if you had

♠5
♥Q7654
♦864
♣8653

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass

I still bid as well. Actually, I think the 5th heart and the club fit makes our hand better than the original one.

There's a limit to this. If I had a 4=4=3=2 0-2 count I would pass 1♣. 1♣ isn't forcing mind you, but there are so many ways bidding to win.

A big thing for me is the vulnerability. It makes a big difference in our decision making. I still might bid if we were vul, but I might pass if I had club support.

I think this thread is vital for B/I players to get a sense of the modern tendencies in responding to a minor suit at favorable vulnerability. B/I players should read very carefully the comments from Cherdano and Justin.

These ideas are a far cry from what textbooks teach. If you talk to any bridge teacher on the planet they would tell you that its proper to pass a one bid with a 5 or a 6 count.

[awm]

I've found that passing is better than people give it credit for.

The issue is that when you have a 5 hcp hand like this one:

(1) Assuming partner usually has 12+ points for an opening, it's not that likely opponents are cold for 3NT. So your chances of "stealing" are not so great.

(2) Bidding on these auctions sometimes forces the opponents to a higher contract than they would otherwise reach. Given the flat shape (suits are breaking) and lack of controls in this hand, it seems possible that they will bid and make a contract that they don't have "enough points" to bid on their own power.

(3) I don't agree that the chances of game making when partner has a fit are particularly good. This is a very quacky hand. There will be many hands when partner has extras and your side is due a plus score, when instead you go minus.

The previously mentioned 5-5 and 6-5 hands are a very different situation, when you will easily make game opposite a fitting hand with mild extras, which is not the case here. They are also weaker in terms of high cards, increasing your chances to steal.

[whereagles]

I find this one quite borderline. The book says you should bid on 5 hcp, but these are 5 rather tame ones.

Would pass or bid according to tactical factors.

[han]

Quantumcat, on Oct 3 2007, 01:17 PM, said:

Okay, fair enough. Just down to agreements on how low you'll bid I guess.

What if you had

♠5
♥Q7654
♦864
♣8653

Would you bid a spade (yess!) or a heart? Or pass

To me this hand is a much clearer 1H response than the one posted. It has more offense and less defense.