[drinbrasil]

Scoring: IMP

1♠-P-P-?

---

What's your plan? If has some?

ps: this hand is from BB today.

[pclayton]

Pass happily.

[Fluffy]

2NT is tempting but hand isn't worth it, I'd just pass.

[ArtK78]

At IMPs? No one vul? Pass and go plus.

It may not be a maximum result, but it won't be terrible.

[han]

Pass.

[drinbrasil]

Lauria doubled this hand and played 1NT X -2 at end

1S p p X
xx p p 1NT
X p p p

[jdonn]

Too bad opener redoubled, he would probably have gotten to double 2NT next round!

[whereagles]

yeah pass seems better

[Halo]

Must be missing something or misread the post. I bid 1NT. The Italian had some different ranges and therefore doubled?

[FrancesHinden]

Halo, on Oct 2 2007, 09:39 PM, said:

Must be missing something or misread the post. I bid 1NT. The Italian had some different ranges and therefore doubled?

In fourth seat (after 1 suit P P) it's normal to play 1NT as rather weaker than in the direct seat. Ranges vary, but 11-15, or 11-14, or some subset, is common. The systemic call on a balanced 16-count is either to downgrade it (not something top players do very often) or double first.

Whether this hand counts as a 'balanced 16-count' is the point of the thread...

[jtfanclub]

Halo, on Oct 2 2007, 03:39 PM, said:

Must be missing something or misread the post. I bid 1NT. The Italian had some different ranges and therefore doubled?

You know, maybe somebody can explain this one to me.

Most Standard players play that a 1NT in the direct seat shows 15-18, while a 1NT in the balancing seat shows 11-14 or so.

Why?

1. 1NT in the direct seat is a good way to win the partscore battle. In the balancing seat, they've pretty much declared that you can take the partscore battle if you really want it.

2. 1NT in the direct seat has the advantage that opponent's points are under the strong hand. In the balancing seat, they're over the strong hand.

3. 1NT in the direct seat is useful if partner has a long suit of his own to show. In the balancing seat, it's likely that partner is balanced- if he wasn't, he'd probably find a bid of his own.

Borrowing a king is fine, and all, but it's still not going to move the strong hand over or prevent them from knowing about partner's pass. Why isn't 1NT in the balancing seat 15-18 as well, in which case this is an easy 1NT call?

[skjaeran]

I don't care much what 1NT show in balancing seat. I'll pass this anyway.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

You know, maybe somebody can explain this one to me.

Most Standard players play that a 1NT in the direct seat shows 15-18, while a 1NT in the balancing seat shows 11-14 or so.

Why?

Because you frequently want a bid to show 11-14 balanced in balancing seat. If you double with these, partner might end up bidding a 4 cd suit freely or in competition, you have no fit, end up in a misfit or too high. If partner doesn't bid the 4 cd suits fearing the doubleton opposite, you lose on your normal takeout double hands where you wanted him to bid them. If you pass these hands, you lose various swings where they can scrape in one of their suit while you are making 1nt, or when you miss game when partner passed his 12-14 bal hand not being suitable for a double, or a good partial when partner had a bad but long suit he didn't overcall, that he can now bid since he knows you have values + usually at least a doubleton.

Many experts play balancing over a major to be a bit stronger, say 12-16, since doubling and following with 2nt can be too high with 15-16.

[pclayton]

drinbrasil, on Oct 2 2007, 10:54 AM, said:

Lauria doubled this hand and played 1NT X -2 at end

1S p p X
xx p p 1NT
X p p p

Ouch. After I chewed on this for a little, its very easy to see how 3N might fetch opposite the right 9 count in pard's hand. The hand will play double dummy and if we don't have a flagrant hole in the hand 9 tricks seems possible.

My experience still says to pass, but Lauria is a great card player so I'm sure he had a good reason to bid

[neilkaz]

In disagreement with most of the group here, I balance 1NT which should be able to show better hands than balancing 1NT after a lower opening since PD is forced to respond at the two level and we may then need to rebid 2NT and get crushed if he has nothing. With this hand and bidding I'll take my chances that we don't get killed in ♣ if left in NT.

I think there's lots of hands PD can hold that will make 4♥ ice cold, and yet even the most aggressive overcaller could not bid after the 1♠ opening. If PD transfers me into ♥, I'll super accept since I have a huge max and great 3 card support.

PD can also hold hands allow us to make 3NT, or even 5♦.

1NT for me .. neilkaz ..

[han]

I think Lauria was way off.

[helene_t]

jtfanclub, on Oct 2 2007, 10:54 PM, said:

Halo, on Oct 2 2007, 03:39 PM, said:

Must be missing something or misread the post.  I bid 1NT. The Italian had some different ranges and therefore doubled?

You know, maybe somebody can explain this one to me.

Most Standard players play that a 1NT in the direct seat shows 15-18, while a 1NT in the balancing seat shows 11-14 or so.

Why?

1. 1NT in the direct seat is a good way to win the partscore battle. In the balancing seat, they've pretty much declared that you can take the partscore battle if you really want it.

In direct seat, the risk of getting robbed when you hold a balanced 13-count is limited because LHO tends to have some points and/or fit for opener, and they will outbid you. Sure, being able to show a balanced 13-count would be benificial when
- none vulnerable, points 20-20 and noone has a great fit, p won't reopen with his 7 points and that will be bad.
- LHO makes a response so it becomes to risky for us to get involved, while we should play 1N or 2/3m else double them for penalties. Or maybe p has a weak 5-card that he could have introduced if you had shown a balanced hand.
- LHO preempts and we belong in 3N.

But the advantages of playing 1N in direct seat as 15-18 are
- Less risk of going for a number when p is broke and we can't find a fit
- We don't have to commit ousselves to 2N when we have the 15-18 points.
- We don't tell declarer were the points are if we end up defending anyway.

The two latter arguments apply in balancing seat as well but less so, because RHO is broke.

I have a theory that playing a strong 1♣ system it's a good idea, when opps are vulnerable, to pass p's hand with non-fitting flat 8-pointers, tempting opps to enter the auction when they should not. This is just an armchair theory, though.

[whereagles]

Hannie, on Oct 3 2007, 12:22 AM, said:

I think Lauria was way off.

yeah, it sure looks like a blunder by Lauria. but hey, he's got a lot of experience and talent.. I guess he must have had his reasons.. I wonder what those were.

[Halo]

This is interesting. Obviously the fact that Lauria bid doesn't imply it was right, or even normal for him.

But I haven't seen too much argument for passing. Is that becaust it is obvious to the passers, or just an instinctive judgement that might be different next time? To put it another way, why is bidding a losing option rather than just another option.

[Edited to make sense - possibly]