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the age old question is this forcing?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 12:44


West North East South

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦
 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

'SAYC' Has 2♦ promised another bid, is 2♦ nmf?

I understand this to be invitational, probe for nt with ♠/♦

My understanding of NMF is
1♣:1♠
1nt:2♦ is nmf
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 12:53

I don think nmf is part of sayc. Where do you see that 2♦ promises another bid? Never heard that. 3♣ can't be forcing.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#3 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 13:08

I think this auction shows something like


Kxxx xxx AJxxx x

So, not only non-forcing, but an attempted sign-off.
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 13:10

Correct 'SAYC' to 'SA' or bbo pickup standard ;)

I dont think 2♦ promises a rebid, my partner thought so


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 Pass  1♣    Pass  1♠
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♦
 Pass  3♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
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#5 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 13:38

North is limited by his 2♣ bid, so South can always pass a natural bid by North. 2♦ is forcing in SAYC.
(And to TylerE SAYC doesn't include Walsh, your example hand is a 1♦ bid.
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#6 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 14:11

Hi,

2D is NMF or 3rd suit or what ever.
3C shows a min. opener with 6 clubs,
and if the 2D bidder is min, why should
he bid on.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 14:27

2♦ does not promise another bid, it could just be an invitational hand so you can pass the 3♣ bid. On the actual hand you really should pass 2♣ IMO, but it's close and 2♦ is not so bad.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 16:14

In french standard, 2♦ is called "3rd suit forcing" and shows an inv+ hand (may be void in diams). It does not promise a rebid, though.
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#9 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 17:43

Undiscussed with a pickup partner I would expect 2D to be ostensibly natural and forcing for one round. I would not expect responder to be canape (longer D than S). It is possible that he could have only 3 Diamonds, ie if concerned about Hearts for NT, but at his own risk (should opener support Diamonds). None of opener's bids are forcing.

To my mind, "nmf" applies after a 1NT rebid.

Still, I don't say I know much about SAYC.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

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#10 User is offline   HeavyDluxe 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 19:03

Quote

1eyedjack (Posted on Sep 28 2007, 06:43 PM)
Undiscussed with a pickup partner I would expect 2D to be ostensibly natural and forcing for one round. ...snip... None of opener's bids are forcing.

To my mind, "nmf" applies after a 1NT rebid.


As the quintessential, sucky, BBO pickup partner, I say: What he said.
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 21:18

I wouldn't play with sucky partners, they stick around for too long.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#12 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2007-September-28, 23:17

Some years ago in The Bridge World, the use of the other minor as artificial after 1m-1M-2m was written up in an article. Since Sonny Moyse referred to New Minor Forcing (1m-1M-1NT-2om) as that "petty little odious bid" or PLOB for short, the title of the article was Extended PLOB.

Basically, the article advocated that the new minor in these sequences:

1♣-1M (♥ or ♠)-2♣-2♦

and

1♦-1M (♥ or ♠)-2♦-3♣

should be artificial and forcing, leaving other bids, such as 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♥ as natural and NONFORCING.

Extended PLOB is not part of SAYC or simple SA, and should not be assumed in a casual or pickup partnership.
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