[matmat]

Codo, on Sep 25 2007, 01:51 AM, said:

4 ♠

1. If pd has the real zero point raise: xxxx,xxx,xxx,xxx, they make 5 in each minor without a finesse and it is much harder for them to compete over 4 Spade then over 3.

the guy that couldn't find a call over 1s will all of a sudden come alive at the 4 level, red?

[Edmunte1]

4♠, some day it will make (i believe that is a 40% chance), some day it will preempt their minor game/part score. By the way, a balancing double is possible

[Free]

Imo any hand which can see a good possibility for game shouldn't bid 3♠ here, especially with this vulnerability! So 3♠ should be first class rubbish... No?

[bid_em_up]

Free, on Sep 25 2007, 05:26 AM, said:

Imo any hand which can see a good possibility for game shouldn't bid 3♠ here, especially with this vulnerability! So 3♠ should be first class rubbish... No?

Scoring: IMP

---

xxxx xx Kx xxxxx

Qxxx x xxx xxxx

xxxx xx xxx Axxx

xxxx Kxxx x xxxx

xxxxx x xxx xxxx


All rubbish. All have reasonable play for 4S. And these are some of the worst hands partner could have. Why should any of these hands see a possibility of game?

In most cases, you can almost be 100% certain that partner will have a stiff heart. If he is truly broke, he must have compensating shortness somewhere, and after taking into consideration your 3 minor suit cards and the opponents failure to bid, his shortness is not in a minor.

The most likely scenario is that LHO is 2-3-4-4 (or 3-2-4-4) and had no good call over 1S and RHO has 5 or 6 hearts but not enough to freely step into this auction. If you pass now, a competent LHO will double realizing his partner is short in spades and they will reach 4H. If you're going to be forced to bid 4S anyway, you may as well do it now.

[ArcLight]

I vote for pass. I don't think its likely we will make game. We are not vulnerable so there is no reason to try for the 38% game, which I wouldn't do anyway.

Openers LHO didn't double so maybe the opps dont have game. It might not be so likely that responder has a singleton heart.

[jdeegan]

4♠
imo all other calls=0, assuming partner knows how to play Bergen raises. I believe there are three ways to learn how to play this style (which I rather like):

1. Read the basic rules, then play it with a regular partner for a few years. Learn from experience.

2. Learn from an experienced expert teacher or mentor.

3. Read and study the two Larry Cohen 'law of total tricks' (LOTT) books, then tackle Mike Lawrence and Witgrn(sic) book called 'I Fought the Law of Total Tricks'.

One needs to appreciate the importance of hand 'purity', secondary suit fits, and of singletons and voids in addition to that of the combined length in the trump suit.

Imo, two equivalent minimum vulnerable 3♠ raises would be:

Q10xx
xx
xxx
Axxx

for a balanced hand (7 dummy points), and

Q10xx
x
xxx
J10xxx

for an unbalanced hand (6 dummy points), or

10xxxx

xxx
xxxxx

for a very unbalanced hand (5 dummy points).

All theses hands give you a decent play for 4♠ even if you don't have the heart queen, which as one commentator pointed out adds little to the value of this hand given the auction so far. Indeed, it is a negative, imo.

The old fashioned dummy points formula works fairly well, up to a point. Non-vul (or if I needed a board) my minimum would be even less.

Anyhow, space precludes any digression into what the opponents might be able to make, but I think the LOTT should save you most of the time 4♠ goes down.

[Free]

bid_em_up, on Sep 25 2007, 03:17 PM, said:

Free, on Sep 25 2007, 05:26 AM, said:

Imo any hand which can see a good possibility for game shouldn't bid 3♠ here, especially with this vulnerability!  So 3♠ should be first class rubbish...  No?

Scoring: IMP

---

xxxx xx Kx xxxxx

Qxxx x xxx xxxx

xxxx xx xxx Axxx

xxxx Kxxx x xxxx

xxxxx x xxx xxxx


All rubbish. All have reasonable play for 4S. And these are some of the worst hands partner could have. Why should any of these hands see a possibility of game?

In most cases, you can almost be 100% certain that partner will have a stiff heart. If he is truly broke, he must have compensating shortness somewhere, and after taking into consideration your 3 minor suit cards and the opponents failure to bid, his shortness is not in a minor.

The most likely scenario is that LHO is 2-3-4-4 (or 3-2-4-4) and had no good call over 1S and RHO has 5 or 6 hearts but not enough to freely step into this auction. If you pass now, a competent LHO will double realizing his partner is short in spades and they will reach 4H. If you're going to be forced to bid 4S anyway, you may as well do it now.

Agree that all these hands make or have a good chance to make game. Most of them have a singleton, and I wonder why no opponent bids when partner has such hand... I think in MOST of these situations opps will bid or double, so the chance of partner having one of the above hands is pretty small.

[FrancesHinden]

Just bid game and see if it makes.
Anything else is over-thinking the hand, IMO.