[kfay]

Scoring: MP

2NT-3♣
3♦-?

---

Any case for trying something funny? Those are some nice spot cards... How about at IMPs?

[kfay]

Well what kind of methods do you employ here to show both minors but not bypass 3N? Or do you not worry about bypassing and just play in 4N if nothing comes up?

[sathyab]

kfay, on Sep 21 2007, 02:09 PM, said:

Well what kind of methods do you employ here to show both minors but not bypass 3N?  Or do you not worry about bypassing and just play in 4N if nothing comes up?

Had it gone 2c-2d-2nt showing a bigger hand than a 2nt opening showing 20-21, you could make a quantitative raise to 4nt. Partner can suggest playing in a minor suit slam by bidding 5nt or 6m. Over 2nt I'd need a bit more.

[kfay]

To me over a quantitative 4NT partner bids 4-card suits up the line at the 5-level and 5-card suits at the 6-level if they are accepting the slam invitation. That's pretty standard, isn't it?

[whereagles]

Jlall, on Sep 21 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

I employ no methods for a 4441 slam inv hand.

You can use something like 2NT-3NT or 2NT 3♠ as baron. Some play that.

[joshs]

kfay, on Sep 21 2007, 02:01 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

2NT-3♣
3♦-?

---

Any case for trying something funny? Those are some nice spot cards... How about at IMPs?

I wonder what 2N-3C-3D-4M should show? I have never thought about it.....

[cherdano]

Jlall, on Sep 21 2007, 02:10 PM, said:

joshs, on Sep 21 2007, 02:55 PM, said:

I wonder what 2N-3C-3D-4M should show? I have never thought about it.....

6M, 4oM, to play

These can go via smolen, though. I think it makes sens to play 4M as shortness, 4441 or 5440.

[keylime]

If able to, 2NT - 3S to force 3NT, then 4S to show 4-4 minors slam invite.

[mikegill]

Quote

These can go via smolen, though. I think it makes sens to play 4M as shortness, 4441 or 5440.

I'd been playing around with this for a while, and I've come up with the following system over 2n that I liked more than some other things I've read. This seems like a good place to get comments. Basically it allows you to show (31)(45)ish hands, (41)44ish hands (that are willing to play 4n if no fit is found) while still allowing you to do everything else you want (I think). If you have one of these shapes and a min GF, you just have to suck it up and bid 3n. There just ain't enough room to show them and get out in 3n. All of these hands start with 3♣.

3♣ is puppet stayman with the ♥-NT responses switched.
Over 3♦ - 4♣ and 4♦ show 1444ish and 4144ish, respectively.
4♥ and 4♠ show 13(45) and 31(45), respectively.
all other bids mean what you think they mean.
Over 3♥ - 3♠ shows 5+ ♠, 4 ♥. If opener signs off in 3n, responder bids 4♠ with a 6-4 signoff and cuebids with a 6-4 slam try.
4♣ and 4♦ are natural slam tries, 5+
4♥ and 4♠ show 1/0 in the other major and at least 4-4 minors.
all other bids mean what you think they mean
Over 3♠ or 3n (showing 5 ♥), you don't need to show these hand types. With 4144 you know you're misfit and can play NT, and with 3145, you don't really have to worry about partner having a side 4-card suit, so you can just bid your 5-bagger naturally with 4♣ or 4♦ and find a 5-3 fit if one exists.

To show other majors-oriented hands:
Xfer to ♠ then 4♥ shows 5-5 majors signoff.
Xfer to ♥ the 3♠ shows 4-5+ signoff or slam try or 5-5 slam try
If opener bids 3n, responder bids 4♣ to show a slam try+ in ♥ (so 4-6+), 4♦ to show a slam try+ in spades, (so 5-5 or better), and 4♥ to show a 4-6 signoff. With only 4-5 shape, responder just raises NT with a slam try/force.
If opener likes his hand with a fit, he can bid 4♣ or 4♦ over 3♠ to set the trump suit as ♥ or ♠, respectively, and leave responder room to explore slam, or he can just bid 4♥ or 4♠ to play.

Other minors-oriented hands go though 3s relay to 3n, but that's not really related to this.

Generally, if responder shows one of these shapes, opener, can cuebid the shortness to show a good fit - there are known to be at least 29-30 HCP so it should be safe that if a good fit exists there's almost certainly a slam. You can add in your own agreements to this as you see fit, obviously.

Thoughts?

[kenrexford]

Because this braqnched, I have a suggestion -- something I learned myself and like:

2NT-P-3♣ = Puppet-like

If Opener bids 3NT, this shows 4-4 in the majors. You could play flags here (4♣=♥, 4♦=♠ for quantitative invites, but probably best is transfers, 4♣ being a natural slam try without a major fit, and 4♠ being a diamond-oriented slam try without a major fit.

If Opener bids 3♠, he has five spades. You could use cues if not 3NT, but probably best is 4minor for natural, 4♥ as push.

If Opener bids 3♥, he has 4-5 hearts. 4 minor now natural; 3♠ checks back on heart length (3NT = 4; other = 5). Opener cues with 5 if appropriate; same issue of picking style preference if Responder continues over 3NT.

If Opener bids 3♦, this shows 2-3 hearts and 2-4 spades. Responder's 3♥ checks on spades (3♠ = 3; 3NT = 2; above 3NT = 4, cues if app.). Responder's 3♠ checks on hearts (3NT = 2; above = 3).

This allows discovery of almost any major fit, 4-4 or 5-3 or 3-5 (Responder can handle any 3, 4, or 5-card major, or combo thereof, including 5-3 and 3-5).

The missing holdings:

With 5♥/4♠, transfer to hearts and then bid 3♠. You need this because there is no solution after 3♣-P-3♦.

With 3♥/5♠, there is no solution after 3♣-P-3♥. So, you simply transfer (3♥), but Opener is allowed to bid 3NT not as a spade super-accept but to show 2♠/5♥. This eliminates ability to stop at 3♠ and limits the super-accepts for spades a bit. But, it handles all major patterns.