BBO Discussion Forums: 2/1 question - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2/1 question

#1 User is offline   ochinko 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 647
  • Joined: 2004-May-27
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Cooking

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:22

Partner deals and opens 1♠, RHO passes. What do you bid with this hand?

Scoring: IMP

0

#2 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:25

I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#3 User is offline   bid_em_up 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Joined: 2006-March-21
  • Location:North Carolina

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:33

pclayton, on Sep 18 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong.

Huh? I'm bidding 2♥, doubling isn't an option.

No, seriously, not only is double not an option, it's not even a legal call. :P

(I assume Phil was joking?)
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
0

#4 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:38

Phil thought RHO had opened 1♠.

I bid 1NT. Hate blocked suits...
0

#5 User is offline   SoTired 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,016
  • Joined: 2005-June-20
  • Location:Lovettsville, VA

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:40

50/50. Today I bid 1N, but can't argue much with 2H. If opener has 3♥ or opens soundly then 2H will work best. If game is unmakable, 1N will work best. I don't think either bid is "wrong"
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
0

#6 User is offline   Walddk 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,190
  • Joined: 2003-September-30
  • Location:London, England
  • Interests:Cricket

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:48

It's a close call in my view. Do you want to force to game or not? The heart suit is not exactly great, but it's likely the last chance to get hearts in if we have a 5-3 fit. Being non-vulnerable at IMPs I think I will settle for 1NT. Maybe I can catch up later if partner's rebid requires action.

The only rebid I will pass is 2♠, and then I am quite happy that I did not force to game. I am sure partner can have hands where game is a fair shot even if he rebids his spades, but I am not too worried.

Vulnerable I would have gone for 2♥. This is how close it is as far as I am concerned.

Roland
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice
0

#7 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2007-September-18, 13:57

Walddk, on Sep 18 2007, 07:48 PM, said:

but it's likely the last chance to get hearts in if we have a 5-3 fit.

Well, there are some cases where you can fish out the heart fit, e.g.

1♠ 1NT
2m 2NT
3♥

but yeah, a direct 2♥ will find it 100% of the time.
0

#8 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,725
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2007-September-18, 14:04

2♥ for me...

Sure its a 12 count. However, this has two bullets and a King. The stiff Ace would normally be bad news, but if its opposite partner's suit it (should) be supporting some honors.

(Plus I have a sound opening across from me)
Alderaan delenda est
0

#9 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2007-September-18, 14:05

Agree that this is a close call and depends on your opening style. I'd bid 1NT.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#10 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2007-September-18, 14:22

bid_em_up, on Sep 18 2007, 11:33 AM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 18 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

I'm doubling. You have to get in there low. 2♥ is wrong.

Huh? I'm bidding 2♥, doubling isn't an option.

No, seriously, not only is double not an option, it's not even a legal call. :)

(I assume Phil was joking?)

ROFL; yes of course. Although I do confuse RHO with my partner a lot (they both make my life difficult :P )

If pard opened 1♠, I'd try 1N.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#11 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2007-September-18, 14:41

Game force it. I feel really strongly that all close calls in a 2/1 system should just game force. The system strength is when you are in a GF. The system weakness is when you have about inv values and have to go through 1N. This leads me to believe close calls should just go through the GF, even if it's not QUITE worth it. Just as an example it will be very tough to bid slams accurately if you start with 1N, and it will be very hard to find 5-3 heart fits when you belong in 4H.
0

#12 User is offline   keylime 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: FD TEAM
  • Posts: 2,735
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nashville, TN
  • Interests:Motorsports, cricket, disc golf, and of course - bridge. :-)

  Posted 2007-September-18, 14:44

I G/F it as well; bidding a forcing NT leads to some awkward sequences where pard rebids in their 3 card minor on a 5-3-(xx) hand and miss 4♥ versus the SAYC bidders. That, and I have decent controls for a change...
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
0

#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,727
  • Joined: 2006-June-05
  • Location:Oslo, Norway
  • Interests:Bridge, sports, Sci-fi, fantasy

Posted 2007-September-18, 15:32

With my regular partner I bid a non-forcing 1NT.
Kind regards,
Harald
0

#14 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2007-September-18, 19:29

This is one of the reasons why I dislike Jacoby 2NT -- I liked an old alternative I used to play. The alternative, after a 1♠ opening, was for 2NT to show GF values and 5+ hearts. 1♠-P-2♥ was then invitational only, with 5+ hearts, non-forcing (no spade fit). Or, reverse the "which is GF" meaning, if you will.

It was, admittedly, used as a solution for a canape approach problem, but the auctions seemed to work very well, especially when Opener held a weak, balanced hand and could pass 2♥ as the right call.

The 2NT GF does jump us up a bit, but not really that much, as practice showed that the number of occurrences of two 5-card major suits and no fit in either was relatively rare. Canape may have protected some of Opener's rebid issues, perhaps. I never tried it in the context of a standard/natural approach, but I always have wanted to try it.

Barring that alternative, I think I'll GF this and end up in trouble on occasion. Thank God that I and my partner can pull in silly 3NT contracts with uncanny frequency.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#15 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2007-September-18, 20:12

Having a game forcing 2NT response to show hearts seems terrible to me. You remove opener's easy 2♠ and 2NT rebid options, which seems impossible to recover from.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#16 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2007-September-18, 20:26

jdonn, on Sep 18 2007, 09:12 PM, said:

Having a game forcing 2NT response to show hearts seems terrible to me. You remove opener's easy 2♠ and 2NT rebid options, which seems impossible to recover from.

Yeah -- that's the part I could never work out with standard. With the canape approach I used, Opener either had four spades and a longer second suit (he'd complete the canape), or 6+ spades (3♠), or a balanced minimum with 4-5 spades and 3+ hearts (raise hearts). 3NT meant something also, but I cannot remember what.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#17 User is offline   neilkaz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,568
  • Joined: 2006-June-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Barrington IL USA
  • Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey

Posted 2007-September-18, 20:37

Is close, but I'll GF this as well with 2 aces and a king. Perhaps my stiff ace finds PD with the K as it is in his suit.

.. neilkaz ..
0

#18 User is offline   DCal 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 2007-September-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Austin, TX 78745
  • Interests:reading, playing guitar, bridge of course

Posted 2007-September-18, 22:23

I agree with ken: I'll GF this hand. Unfortunately, all of my partners play Jacoby 2NT. I'll bid 2H and hope this is not the unlikely hand where only 1NT (or something else equally silly) makes. :P
0

#19 User is offline   gwnn 

  • Csaba the Hutt
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,027
  • Joined: 2006-June-16
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:bye

Posted 2007-September-19, 03:30

oh no, another hand with 5 hearts and pd opens 1♠ :P:(

gf i suppose.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
0

#20 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2007-September-19, 04:53

2H. Too many controls to bid 1NT
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users