[VegasVern]

I'm new here and enjoy the site, but a lot of things come up I think could be improved.

One of them is playing in a game with an unknown partner and they have no data whatsoever in their convention card.

If they don't know any conventions, then they should at least be required to enter "novice."

Perhaps the software could direct them to enter something so their partner could at least have an idea what they are playing. It doesn't have to be much. Five card majors. SAYC. Standard. Something like that.

Thanks

[helene_t]

You can ask p to chose one of the standard convention cards. If he isn't familiar with any of those, tough luck. In that case he probably wouldn't be able to fill in a coherent convention card, and adhere to it, either.

[matmat]

VegasVern, on Oct 18 2007, 02:48 PM, said:

Standard.

what is "standard"?
does "5 card majors" really help you?
a lot of people who "play" sayc have never actually looked at the card.

best thing to do (if you insist on playing with random pickup partners) is to discuss system with p when you sit down.

forcing people to declare their systems just seems silly in a pickup venue.

[VegasVern]

"forcing people to declare their systems just seems silly in a pickup venue."

It doesn't seem "silly" to me. It seems like common sense.

How about as a compromise just requiring players to fill in the part that says, "Beginner, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert."

At least that would give you an idea about their skill level.

[han]

I vote for non-forcing.

[VegasVern]

Hannie, on Oct 18 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

I vote for non-forcing.

Why?

[matmat]

VegasVern, on Oct 18 2007, 04:12 PM, said:

How about as a compromise just requiring players to fill in the part that says, "Beginner, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert."

At least that would give you an idea about their skill level.

you haven't played on BBO very much, have you?

filling out that field means nothing.

you have people who can't evaluate their level properly, you have people who choose not to list their level honestly. You have people whose level varies on time of day, how much sleep they have had, etc. You have people coming from different parts of the world where the cutoffs (whatever they may be) are different for the different levels. you have people who don't actually know what the bbo definitions of the levels are. you also expose yourself to insults/abuse of the "you are not advanced, p!"

the whole things is a totally arbitrary crapshoot.

----
private matmat

[han]

I usually play with friends, and I don't want to be bothered with having to deal with convention cards. I imagine this is true for many people.

If I play with a new partner then I will discuss in a few seconds to discuss what we play. This doesn't have to take long, and it is actually nice to exchange a few words with your partner before play starts.

[matmat]

VegasVern, on Oct 18 2007, 04:17 PM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 18 2007, 02:15 PM, said:

I vote for non-forcing.

Why?

"why?"

because forcing people to do anything that should be a personal choice is wrong. I for one would not want to play with someone who demands that i list the systems I can play in my profile. the space is much too small and systems often demand a lot of discussion to be played correctly anyway. besides, i like to put random little tidbits of various things in my profile that are not related to bridge. mandating that i list my possible systems take away space from that.

if someone chooses to not list anything in their profile, it is your choice, in turn, not to play with/against them. nothing wrong with that.

[BillHiggin]

Maybe we should ask them all to have a sign

[matmat]

BillHiggin, on Oct 18 2007, 04:40 PM, said:

Maybe we should ask them all to have a sign

ooooh.... or wear a tshirt

[Elianna]

VegasVern, on Oct 18 2007, 11:48 AM, said:

I'm new here and enjoy the site, but a lot of things come up I think could be improved.

One of them is playing in a game with an unknown partner and they have no data whatsoever in their convention card.

If they don't know any conventions, then they should at least be required to enter "novice."

Perhaps the software could direct them to enter something so their partner could at least have an idea what they are playing. It doesn't have to be much. Five card majors. SAYC. Standard. Something like that.

Thanks

I understand your point of view, but as the others, I disagree, for a slightly different reason.

It seems that your purpose in wanting people to fill out a convention card is that it will let you know what they know how to play, so you have an idea of what conventions to play with them. And maybe (perhaps? guessing by your second post) tell what level they are at by what conventions they know. If these aren't your reasons, I apologize.

Anyway, getting them to fill out a convention card, without even agreeing to a system, is not helpful. People may play 2D as different if they're playing 2/1, SAYC, or precision, or even have two ore more preferred meanings for each system, depending on other facts. If they filled in "multi" for that bid, it doesn't mean that they don't know how/won't play a Mexican 2d, for example.

The 2♦ bid was just an example, there are many more.

As others have said, it may just be easier to discuss it with a potential partner, and start developing a group of people you enjoy playing with.

Finding out their level and then guessing what they play won't help a lot, either, because people vary greatly in what conventions they know, and what they're willing to play. Even assuming that people are correct about their level, one advanced player may be more familiar or willing to play certain conventions than others.

Again, it would be nice if there were a way to instantly agree with partner on what to play, to get the software to automatically pop up with what you both play, but I believe this is not feasible. Many people play certain conventions slightly differently, and so even agreeing on certain things doesn't mean you're on the same page.

[VegasVern]

OK, thanks to all for responding. In conclusion just leave your convention cards blank. There isn't any sense in putting anything down, because it might be inaccurate or differ from what someone else's interpretation might be.

I guess it's also fine to leave in the middle of a hand because you got bad cards or your partner played badly. No sense sticking around to finish the hand, after all that would be forcing someone to do something they don't want to do.

And while you're at it you should be able to take 30 seconds to follow suit when you have a singleton or only small cards left. If you want to take your time to play a forced card, nobody should be able to tell you any differently.

Thanks again. I think I understand things now. I can go back into lurking mode.

[matmat]

seems you're missing the point. or maybe you just like forcing people to do stuff. to each is own, i guess.

to clarify...
there is nothing wrong with listing stuff in your profile or using things that someone else has put in, but making it mandatory is not right. having nothing in ones profile is nowhere near as bad as ditching a table midhand or playing unethically

[Elianna]

VegasVern, on Oct 18 2007, 02:43 PM, said:

OK, thanks to all for responding. In conclusion just leave your convention cards blank. There isn't any sense in putting anything down, because it might be inaccurate or differ from what someone else's interpretation might be.

I guess I just don't think it makes sense to have a convention card as a single person, instead of one as a partnership.

[fred]

Keep in mind that most of the world's bridge players (I would guess 90%+) don't even know that there is such a thing as a convention card and only know how to bid the way that they learned.

Sure these people tend to get a fast education in some of the things that duplicate players take for granted when they become members of BBO, but I bet they would not stay around long if we forced them to use something they have never heard of before and could not possibly understand.

We created the Masters' Bridge Club to be a part of our site where people who really care about such things can play together. I am not sure why, but the concept has not caught on.

We are hoping to make some major improvements in terms of "convention card management issues" in the Flash version of BBO (now under development). In fact, it is convention card related issues that have caused the big gap between our last Forums release and the next one.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com