[pippo13]

My partner and I play SAYC (opening 1 diamonds = 4+ cards, which of course means opening 1 clubs might be 2 cards only)

My hand:
S: A J 2
H: J 7 4 3
D: A
C: A K J 7 6
I was sitting North. Dealer West.
The bid:
West North East South
pass 1 club Double pass
1 spade

I was uncertain whether to say 2 hearts or 2 clubs, that is whether to show my strength or to show length in clubs.
What do you think?

[Blofeld]

I would show strength, but not with 2♥. Rather I think 1NT is a reasonable description of the hand in context. We seem to merit another call, but 2♥ is rather higher than I think is safe, and 1NT has the added advantage of showing stoppers.

2♣ is quite a misrepresentation; it should show at a minimum a 6 card suit.

[han]

I'd bid 1NT, this shows a balanced hand with 18-19 HCP.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2C.

You are strong, but partner is broke.
You may have a heart fit, but you dont know,
and if you dont have a heart fit, they may start
doubling you.

2C shows length, but it also shows a better than min.
opener, either 6 clubs or compensating vaules.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ralph23]

It's (to me) a very interesting question. When you opened, your "plan" was to bid ♣ and then reverse into ♥, unless by some miracle partner actually bid ♥ (we'll ignore for the moment what your plan was if partner responded 1♦).

But your plan did not go as .... er uh, as planned. Should you still follow through with it?

Hmmm. Well, my first rule (from Bill Root, who taught this consistently) is that if you the opener have two rebid alternatives -- one of them being to rebid an unsupported 5 card suit and the other being "anything else reasonable", choose the "anything else reasonable." I think I have two "anything else's" here, so I won't rebid ♣.

The 2♥ bid does describe your hand but has some problems with it.
1. Partner passed over the double. He may be broke.
2. The doubler is not at all unlikely to have 4 hearts. My ♥ are nothing to write home about.
3. What if partner bids 2nt over 2♥? Or passes with 3 of them? After all, partner has promised a minimum of exactly zero points in this auction.

So I think the mild lie of 1nt with a singleton is best.

This post has been edited by ralph23: 2007-September-09, 12:00

[han]

I don't think that 2H is reasonable btw.

[whereagles]

I would dbl, antecipating the following (likely) follow-up:

1♣ dbl pass 1♠
dbl 2♠ pass pass

after which I can now bid 3♣ (or support pard's heart bid if he makes one meanwhile).

[han]

Double is an alternative that I thought nobody would consider reasonable.

[skjaeran]

I'd rebid 1NT, showing 18-19 with stoppers. That's by far the best description of my hand. 2♣ is an alternative, but to me 1NT is far superior.

X is t/o here. Switch the pointed suit holdings, and that would be OK. If you double and partner bids 2♦ you won't love it at all.

[whereagles]

skaeran, on Sep 9 2007, 08:33 PM, said:

X is t/o here. Switch the pointed suit holdings, and that would be OK. If you double and partner bids 2♦ you won't love it at all.

The idea would be to go back to hearts then. If pard is alert, he'll realize I hold more or less what I actually have

(ok, IF pard is alert.. which is a big IF )

[Fluffy]

Hannie, on Sep 9 2007, 07:50 PM, said:

Double is an alternative that I thought nobody would consider reasonable.

You aren't very reasonable Han

I like 2♥ because: it jams diamonds for the opponents, and moves forward to our most likelly game (if there is one).

[Codo]

I am with Fluffy and bid 2 ♥. This shows a two suiter with reverse strength, 5+ clubs, 4 Hearts and no real interest in Diamonds. Hey, exactly what I have....

1 NT is a distand second. It is distant because I wrongly never bid NT with these hands, even when it is right.
Of course the big plus is that it is much lower then 2 Heart and the heart suit is nothing to be too proud of, but I am still not convinced that 1 NT with normally just one stopper in spade and one in Diamond is the best bid.

[han]

4H is not a likely game at all, if partner has 4+ hearts then she must be quite weak.

[SoTired]

1N

2C is poor. 2H is a unreasonable. X is ridiculous.

2C is not as good as 1N since it promises 6♣ and does not convey how strong we are. But at least 2C will unlikely get us in trouble.

After 1C X pass, we have no game. If we bid 2H and LHO makes a penalty dbl, would you be happy if partner passed it to you?

X invites partner to bid diam. Won't you be pleased to hear partner bid 3D over 2S on ♦QJxxx and out.

If partner has club support, then we can take 7 tricks in NT. 1N announces our strength and distribution to partner. After our descriptive 1N, partner is much better situated to decide between competing and defending. With 5HCP and 3♠, partner may be able to dbl 2S!

[mikeh]

The possible calls (I think) are, in ascending order:

1. Double: idiotic. We encourage partner to bid diamonds, while showing a 1=4=3=5 hand with some extra values... in other words a hand utterly unlike the hand we hold. And to bid and encourage partner to bid 3♦ and then to correct???? Words fail me.

2. Pass. Maybe this is a misfit with a broke partner... but our hand is simply too good, and passing seems completely unreasonable. It's better than double, which isn't saying much

3. 2♥. This should be the least favoured call amongst any panel, because it is so bad.. but it's better than pass or double. It is BAD because, while it is ok on hcp, we have 3 warning signs against a reverse. RHO doubled, so likely has 4 hearts. Our suit is pathetic (and RHO's likely to be MUCH better. And partner had an easy 1♥ bid had he the values and the length to make a heart contract a good idea.

4. 2♣: at least we have a good suit, and a good hand. But 2♣ is the bid we'd make with many no-extra values hands with 6 decent-to-good clubs.... actively inviting partner to compete in clubs but in no way suggesting the high card power we hold. So it distorts our length in clubs and our hcp.

5. 1N: surely the expert consensus call if ever there were one. It is correct on hcp, correct on stoppers, correct on playing strength. It lacks a diamond, so it is not perfect. If we were AJx Jxx Ax AKJxx, we'd all bid 1N and wonder what the problem was. So while 1N is a distortion of the diamond holding, it is clearly the correct call. It is the cheapest (other than the cowardly pass and the idiotic double) and most flexible.... and the least distortion.

When you have to distort your hand, your choices should be influenced by these very factors: make the cheapest, most flexible, least distorting call. Sometimes these criteria are in conflict, so when you see a call suggested by all 3 of these criteria, that should be automatic.

[jtfanclub]

pippo13, on Sep 9 2007, 11:34 AM, said:

I was uncertain whether to say 2 hearts or 2 clubs, that is whether to show my strength or to show length in clubs.
What do you think?

I think it depends on what 1♥ by your partner would have meant.

If you play, as some people play, that 1♥ promises 5, and XX promises 10+, then your partner could have 4 hearts and 9 points, and you should check on a heart game.

If you play that 1♥ shows only 4 hearts and about 6 points, then I'd agree with 1NT.

[Fluffy]

AJx is not a great holding when opponent's honnors rate to be divided.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on Sep 10 2007, 01:54 PM, said:

AJx is not a great holding when opponent's honnors rate to be divided.

It's not a bad holding when most of the opps' strength is on your left.... rho may have trouble getting in to lead the suit, and RHO may hold KQ... not to mention partner may hold 10x.

Put another way: 1N on AJx or 2♥ on Jxxx? I'd expect a 80%+ expert vote for 1N.

[mike777]

I wonder if opening 1nt was a reasonable option.