[CSGibson]

If you have a flat 5-3-3-2 17 count and partner opens 1NT (15-17), how do you give him a choice of playing in NT or your 5 card major? Is it as simple as transfering and then making a quantitative raise to 6 of your major, or are there other methods?

[Gerardo]

transfer then 4NT, quantitative, can be accepted with 6M and 6NT

[CSGibson]

Gerardo, on Sep 10 2007, 01:20 AM, said:

transfer then 4NT, quantitative, can be accepted with 6M and 6NT

Sure, that works when you want to invite to a slam, but what about when you know you are going to a slam and just want to have partner choose between your major and NT? If my 5-3-3-2 17 count is not quite in your forcing-to-slam range, then make it an 18 count.

[CSGibson]

Jlall, on Sep 9 2007, 10:52 PM, said:

Transfer then 5N shows 5332 choice of slams. Partner can also introduce a new 5 card suit of his own to try and get to a 5-3 fit there. If you want to grand slam force in the major bid texas then 5N.

OK, that's definitely an option, but doesn't that give up 5NT as invitational to 7NT (with a 20-21 count, perhaps)? Not that it wouldn't be worth the trade off, I'm just wondering if it would be better to agree that NT-Jacoby transfer-accept-6 (transfer suit) is exactly 5 of the transfer suit and quantitative.

[gwnn]

deleted random silliness

[Fluffy]

With my partner I had that and faked a 5422. Ee ended up in 6♥ and opponent made a safe lead, safe only if I actually had 5422, not 5332, it gave the contract.

He argued something about psyching artificial bids, I wonder if he had any reason on that.

[han]

Fluffy, on Sep 10 2007, 05:40 AM, said:

He argued something about psyching artificial bids, I wonder if he had any reason on that.

No.

[awm]

There is always 3♠ natural and forcing. This allows partner to cue with a spade fit, or rebid 3NT with doubleton after which various quantitative raises are available. Then again, Elianna and I are probably one of the few pairs playing this treatment today.

[skjaeran]

awm, on Sep 10 2007, 07:44 PM, said:

There is always 3♠ natural and forcing. This allows partner to cue with a spade fit, or rebid 3NT with doubleton after which various quantitative raises are available. Then again, Elianna and I are probably one of the few pairs playing this treatment today.

Agree, one of very few partnerships playing this method.
Seems it was more or less obsolete already when I started playing some 30 years ago, eventhough my memory can be faulty.

[Fluffy]

I also use 3♦/♥/♠ as nat and forcing, but I am suposed to have 6 of them when doing so, actually having only 5 will be much more useful now you say it.

[kenrexford]

What's this new convention called "natural?" Is there a suggested defense?

[Fluffy]

kenrexford, on Sep 10 2007, 08:16 PM, said:

What's this new convention called "natural?" Is there a suggested defense?

penaty doubles and fishbein.

[awm]

The theory is that it's hard to look for slam intelligently with a one-suited major hand and no shortness (for example 5332, 6322, etc). Obviously you can transfer and then make some quantitative type bid, or transfer at the four level followed by keycard, etc. But sometimes you want to have a sensible cuebidding auction, and you just can't. Using 3M as natural/forcing solves both these problems as well as letting you right-side 4M when you have a hand that just plays better by responder. We play that:

(1) Opener bids 3NT with only doubleton in the suit named. At this point responder can pass, raise the notrump bid as a quantitative raise (5332), correct to 4M, or make any other bid as a cuebid setting the major as trump.

(2) With three or more card support, opener is supposed to cuebid over 3M. This agrees the major suit.

I know this is a real complicated convention and probably should be restricted to national-level events. But somehow the convention committee hasn't gotten to it yet.