[Chamaco]

Hi all,
I would like an opinion by expert on the subject of CAB (control asking bids).

With my regular partner, we have chosen to follow the approach suggested by Andersen-Zenkel in "Preempts from A to Z", where a opposite a weak 2 o or weak 3, CABs can be a more useful tool for slam investigation rather than cuebids.

In all other cases, we use regular cuebids for slam investigation (so far).

Recently, we have decided to use 2-level responder Jump Shifts (JS) as strong rather than weak as we did previously.
So now , after an opening 1♣/♦, the response 2♥/♠ is a natural bid which sets the scenario for slam exploration, and has the meaning of either:
1)semibalanced hand (5332/6322) with 18+ HCP and a good suit (the suit bid, ♥ or ♠), shown by a NT rebid at the second round;
2) single suiter solid-semisolid (the suit bid, ♥ or ♠), max 5 losers, shown by a rebid of the suit
3) good suit (the suit bid, ♥ or ♠)+ good fit for opener, max 5 losers, shown by 2nd round support;

This approach follows the guidelines laid down by Mike Lawrence in his "2/1 workbook".
We do not have available the same for minors because 3-level JS are artificial, so we use it only for hands unbalanced or 5332/6322 in a major.

The question is the following: we think that in case B (single suited hand), the sue of CABs can be more useful than cuebids, but it is not clear who should be the Captain of the auction.
In fact, in CAB sequence, the slam exploration is controlled only by one of the partners rather than being a cooperation such as in cuebidding.
Yet, it is not clear whether the control of the bidding should be in the hand of the opener or in the hand of the "Jump-shifter" that holds a single suiter.

I'd appreciate comments by people that are experienced with CABs.

Thanks !!

Mauro

[keylime]

CABs when used correctly have a great value to the auction. Normally found in Precision-based systems, CABs are starting to make their way into non-forcing club structures. The problem with CABs is if pard has a void/singleton/doubleton in the jump shift suit. Thusly you don't know if your jump shift has adequate support or not.

What I would use instead of CABs is Kickback and Italian cuebidding/Spiral Scan. Find your fit first THEN start making a slam try. Key Lime Precision uses Kickback and Italian form of Spiral Scan instead of CABs and TABs for this reason - we have known fit and room in the auction (that's biggie) to make some inquiries. We in KLP use jump shifts to show game forcing hands that have no better than mild slam interest over our nebulous 1♦ opening to not get the limited hand all excited.

This was a good question, shows you're willing to think outside the box.

[Chamaco]

keylime, on Feb 4 2004, 04:56 PM, said:

[font=Arial]The problem with CABs is if pard has a void/singleton/doubleton in the jump shift suit. Thusly you don't know if your jump shift has adequate support or not.

Thank you very much, I appreciate all suggestions.

As far as the trump support is concerned, the CAB question is limited to the case where the jumpshifter has shown precisely ONE TYPE of hand:
a single suited hand that has a self-sufficient (solid-semisolid, max 1 loser) suit that can be trump in a suit contract even opposite a void.
This kind of hand is shown by rebidding the suit at the second round of bidding.

(There are 2 other types of JS hands, e.g. 18+ semibalanced, and 5- loser hand with support for partner, but for the time being we do not plan to use CABs for those types of hands).

So a sequence like
1♣:2♠
3♦:3♠

Shows a slam-going hand (4♠ wd be weaker) with self sufficient spades as trump (solid/semisolid, max one loser) and sets spades as trumps, even if opener has a void there.
So the CAB question should read as follows:
Now that spades are trump for sure and pard has a single suiter, who should be the Captain ? The jumpshifter or the opener ?

Thanks !!

[keylime]

So a sequence like

1♣:2♠
3♦:3♠

Shows a slam-going hand (4♠ wd be weaker) with self sufficient spades as trump (solid/semisolid, max one loser) and sets spades as trumps, even if opener has a void there.

Captain of this auction should be OPENER and not responder. Opener has yet to limit their hand at their first turn. What I would use is the following:

3NT = serious slam try
4m = natural showing a 5-5 or 6-4 or 6-5 hand
4♥ = Last Train for ♠
4♠ = signoff
4NT = RKCB for spades

[Chamaco]

keylime, on Feb 4 2004, 05:26 PM, said:

3NT = serious slam try
4m = natural showing a 5-5 or 6-4 or 6-5 hand
4♥ = Last Train for ♠
4♠ = signoff
4NT = RKCB for spades

Thanks again !

Is there a specific reason why in this sequence you recommend the use of that framework rather than CABs ?

[keylime]

Using CABs there is way high in the auction. You'd want to use them at 2Nt or Lower if you can to keep the auction compact. I'd just use the framework it's easier to remember and better off in long run.

[Chamaco]

keylime, on Feb 4 2004, 06:44 PM, said:

Using CABs there is way high in the auction. You'd want to use them at 2Nt or Lower if you can to keep the auction compact. I'd just use the framework it's easier to remember and better off in long run.

Let me try to explain why I thought this specific type of hand (single suited with solid trumps, max 5 losers) could have been suitable for CABs.

I figured it by analogy to the suggestion by Zenkel & Anderson in their book on preempts.
They say that if pard opens a weak 2 or a weak 3, a jump bid by responder should be a CAB (considering only 1st and 2nd round controls, 3rd round controlk would take up too much bidding space). This CAB may well occur at the 3 or 4 level.

In that case, the preemptor hand is rather clear and responder needs very little additional information, as he knows pard has a good suit and at most an outside Ace.

(Thinking aloud...)
In the current case, opposed to a strong JS showing a single suiter, could it be made a case that the hand of the jumpshifter is also easy to visualize so the opener can just go ahead and use CABs ? After all, in both cases, we have a single suiter, but in the JS case the hand is strong and there may be crucial features outside trumps.
Yet, opener would be able to figure the crucial features to ask.
Or am I missing something ?

[Free]

If you want to use CAB's, you need a lot of information at the 3-level. After that, you can try some low level RKC (example 3♠) and continue with CAB's. But if you are asking Keycards at 4 level or higher, you can't use much of CAB's anymore...

Example:
1♣ - 2♠
3♦ - 3♥ (last train)
3♠ (RKC ♠)

[inquiry]

This was an discussion I was going to stay out of, but since FREE raised the spector of 3♠ as RKCB for ♠, let me tell how I play similar game forcing auctions where 3 of a major becomes game force, this is our suit. I play optional RKCB. This is just one trick I learned from ETM Victory (along with garrazzo 2/3 double, and a few other toys).

Optional RKCB, partner can choose NOT TO show his keycards by bidding the first step. Or he can show his keycards by bidding at step two or higher. If partner declines to show his KEYCARDS, then the next step is FORCED RKCB.

For instance
1♦-2♠
3♣-3♠
3Nt-4♣

3♠ would be optional RKCB, 3NT would be, I am not proud of my opening or my fit so I will not show my key cards, 4♣ is I don't care, tell me your keycards. I have found hte inferences from this type of sequence very helpful indeed.

Ben

[keylime]

inquiry, on Feb 4 2004, 11:40 PM, said:

This was an discussion I was going to stay out of, but since FREE raised the spector of 3♠ as RKCB for ♠, let me tell how I play similar game forcing auctions where 3 of a major becomes game force, this is our suit. I play optional RKCB. This is just one trick I learned from ETM Victory (along with garrazzo 2/3 double, and a few other toys).

Optional RKCB, partner can choose NOT TO show his keycards by bidding the first step. Or he can show his keycards by bidding at step two or higher. If partner declines to show his KEYCARDS, then the next step is FORCED RKCB.

For instance
1♦-2♠
3♣-3♠
3Nt-4♣

3♠ would be optional RKCB, 3NT would be, I am not proud of my opening or my fit so I will not show my key cards, 4♣ is I don't care, tell me your keycards. I have found hte inferences from this type of sequence very helpful indeed.

Ben

Optional RKCB is a GREAT tool. K and I use it in our system a lot to show hands that are min/max because a lot of times slam tries are made one of the hands are limited already from opening a non 1C/2D. That is something I would definitely consider using, just make sure you practice it A LOT. As Cohen-Berkowitz say, "If it can be keycard it IS."

[mishovnbg]

..............................................Hi Mauro!.................................................
...If you like to play strong jump shifts with some kind of askings, it is nice idea to read Rozenkranz's ROMEX and QUASIKIN strong jump shift asking convention. I played it several years without sucsess, despite the convention is very good.
...In my opinion using strong jump shifts is not good because:

• You lose useful bidding space when you most need it for slam investigation
  
• The usage of rare happen convention with stepping responses lead to mistakes.
  
• You lose possibility to use same bids to solve the real problem.

...Example of useful 2 level jump shift: 4+ in suit, 5+in next side suit, below invitational strength.

Bidding: 1♣-2♥

---

...The reason of same convention is it come often and no available right natural rebid after opener's rebid 2 in opened minor, because new suit is normally inv+.
.........................................................................Misho