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2/1 How do you bid this using BASIC 2/1 not Ken Rexford science

#1 User is offline   ArcLight 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:36

(just teasing Ken :)

IMPS - opps vuln, RHO deals and passes

Please bid this using 2/1 not SAYC:

(Opener)
♠A K J 8 7 x
♥A T x
♦x x x
♣ K


(Responder)
♠x x
♥K x
♦ A Q J T 9 x x
♣ A x


Is the Openers hand good enough to bid 1♠-2♦, 3♠ ?
Or is it good enough to raise ♦ 1♠-2♦, 3♦ ?
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:45

I'm not an expert on SAYC but I don't think the hand is good enough for 3S.. 2S is forcing right?

I think that it would be very hard to get to 6D using SAYC, 1S-2D-2S-3D is not forcing so responder would have to make up a bid, and then it gets messy. Even in 2/1 the hand is very difficult. Once you get passed 3NT it gets easier though.

Perhaps in 2/1 (don't know if that is too scientific) you can do it by starting with 1S-2D-2S-3D-4D.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 User is offline   keylime 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:46

I raise diamonds, then rebid spades here. You're in no hurry.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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#4 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:48

Raising diamonds then bidding spades seems wrong when you have such good spades and such bad diamonds. If the auction starts 1S-2D-3D-3NT, you will have to decide whether to pass or to pull, and you will be wrong on a fair amount of the hands.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:51

1S-2D-2S-3D-4D-4H-4N-5S-6D
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:51

3D in SAYC Justin?

edited: I thought the post initially said SAYC (did it?)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:53

Hannie, on Aug 17 2007, 10:51 PM, said:

3D in SAYC Justin?

reading comprehension plz
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#8 User is offline   ArcLight 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:53

(Hannie this is a 2/1 question, not SAYC)


Our auction went
1♠ 2♦
2♠ 2NT
3NT (making 7)

How bad were the:
2♠
2 NT
3 NT
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#9 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:55

2S was 1000 % clear.

2N I don't like and I'm a fan of rebidding 2N like 90 % of the time. However this hand has great diamonds. Anyways its certainly not the worst bid ever...

3N- very bad bid, partner may have 2 spades and you will miss 4S, you may miss a diamond slam, etc. Easy 3D bid over 2N, gives partner room to explore for a diamond slam and also room to show a doubleton spade (via 3S).
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#10 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2007-August-17, 21:58

Hannie,

I play 1S-2D-3D showing extras; in this construction I still raise regardless of style because if the fear that if I rebid 2S, I might be in the wrong strain when the auction ends.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 21:58

2NT I really can't understand, such good diamonds!

I don't like 3NT either, I think showing support there is a good idea.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#12 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-August-17, 22:01

keylime, on Aug 17 2007, 10:58 PM, said:

Hannie,

I play 1S-2D-3D showing extras; in this construction I still raise regardless of style because if the fear that if I rebid 2S, I might be in the wrong strain when the auction ends.

? How will you end in the wrong strain. You bid 2S and then you raise diamonds. You can then back into a 6-2 spade fit. You save room giving partner plenty of room to make his normal rebid, thus likely getting 2 extra bids in before the 3D bid is made so that both of you can define your hands better. If you raise 3D things are already cramped and partner has no idea you have 3 little diamonds and 6 excellent spades.
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 22:02

keylime, on Aug 17 2007, 10:58 PM, said:

Hannie,

I play 1S-2D-3D showing extras; in this construction I still raise regardless of style because if the fear that if I rebid 2S, I might be in the wrong strain when the auction ends.

I think you've got this all wrong. It is more likely that you will be able to support diamonds after you bid 2S then that you will be able to bid spades after you bid 3D. Whether 3D shows extras or not has nothing to do with that.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#14 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 22:14

I would have just bid 3d(not extras for me) over 2D but expect most to rebid 2s not 3d.

Yes I wish I had a D honor but I do have ruffing values and alot of outside honors.

It may or may not be difficult to later show 3 card d support later if I start with 2S.
It helps this is imps not mp but I would not be surprised to have a D slam here. I have a really nice hand.
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Posted 2007-August-17, 22:16

mike777, on Aug 17 2007, 11:14 PM, said:

I would have just bid 3d(not extras for me) over 2D but expect most to rebid 2s not 3d.

Why? Presumably to go against conventional wisdom you must have some well thought out reasons.
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#16 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2007-August-17, 22:34

Jlall, on Aug 17 2007, 10:55 PM, said:

2S was 1000 % clear.

2N I don't like and I'm a fan of rebidding 2N like 90 % of the time. However this hand has great diamonds. Anyways its certainly not the worst bid ever...

3N- very bad bid, partner may have 2 spades and you will miss 4S, you may miss a diamond slam, etc. Easy 3D bid over 2N, gives partner room to explore for a diamond slam and also room to show a doubleton spade (via 3S).

agree.

btw raising 2♦ to 3♦ is silly: it guarantees missing a 6-2 spade fit if partner, over 3♦, makes the most common call: 3N. And if partner bids 3♥, probing for 3N or slamming in diamonds, no number of spades ever shows more than 5.
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#17 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2007-August-18, 01:04

ArcLight, on Aug 17 2007, 10:36 PM, said:

(just teasing Ken :)

IMPS - opps vuln, RHO deals and passes

Please bid this using 2/1 not SAYC:

(Opener)
♠A K J 8 7 x
♥A T x
♦x x x
♣ K


(Responder)
♠x x
♥K x
♦ A Q J T 9 x x
♣ A x


Is the Openers hand good enough to bid 1♠-2♦, 3♠ ?
Or is it good enough to raise ♦ 1♠-2♦, 3♦ ?

My auction is goofy, not Ken goofy, but goofy nonetheless...

1♠ 2♦
2♠ 3♣!
3♦ 3♠
4♠ 4NT

blah blah blah...6♠.

So what's the 3♣ bid doing in there? SAYC doesn't have new minor forcing!
And yet, in cases like these, bidding a 'partial' to force game is pretty common- the usual least lie. After that, the auction becomes easy.
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#18 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-August-18, 01:15

wtf if only the title was how do you bid this in 2/1 and the OP said "bid this in 2/1 and not SAYC" and subsequent posts noted the system played is...2/1...
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#19 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2007-August-18, 01:17

Justin's auction seems fine to me for a 2/1 auction.

Playing SAYC, I would bid:

1♠ - 3♦!
4♦

Yes that's right, a good old-fashioned strong jump shift which is part of SAYC. From here the bidding is easy; in fact responder can keycard at next turn or cuebid 4♥ as he sees fit.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#20 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-August-18, 03:18

Playing 2/1 light, where rebidding the 2/1 suit is invite only, we'd start:
1♠ - 2♦
2♠ - 2NT (GF)
3♦ (6♠3♦)

Thereafter we should have no problem reaching 6♦.
Kind regards,
Harald
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