[FrancesHinden]

This is a longish and rather artificial auction, so maybe it's not the best hand to give as a problem... but at heart it's still a judgement question.

Scoring: IMP

1♠ 2♦
2♥ 2NT
3♥ 3NT
4♥ 4♠
?

---

1♠ = 5 card majors, strong NT
2♦ = natural, FG
2♥ = EITHER 12-14 balanced, OR 4+ hearts, OR exactly 5/4 in the blacks
2NT = 3-card spade support
3♥ = I have real hearts
3NT = EITHER significant extra values and slam interest but no minor suit ace to cue OR at least one minor suit ace but minimum high card values

{from your hand you can deduce it is the latter; also with lots of high cards partner could have bid a neutral 3♠ to see if you could volunteer a minor suit cue}

4♥ = cue bid, interest opposite the 3NT bid
4♠ = nothing more to say

Do you want to go on?

[mr1303]

No, I think I've said my piece. Partner hasn't really encouraged me here. Whilst I may not have that many losers, I don't have that many winners opposite not the greatest of fits, and I may well need a 3-2 spade break to even have a chance.

[mike777]

4S I pass.

As I understand it partner has made a slam try in spades and has real Diamonds. I have cued heart values.

[Blofeld]

I confess that I'd like to make another move.

[awm]

I'd pass. Partner won't have two aces. It's easy to imagine losing two clubs off the top, or a club lead knocking out the ace and then losing the diamond ace and a club. Even if partner has the "right" hand we will often need a good break in either spades or hearts to make the slam.

[Echognome]

Maybe I don't understand the options after 3NT. Why didn't I bid 4♦ highlighting the club problem?

[kenrexford]

Echognome, on Aug 20 2007, 05:42 PM, said:

Maybe I don't understand the options after 3NT. Why didn't I bid 4♦ highlighting the club problem?

Ditto that. Plus, 4♥ took away options for partner. Had you bid 4♦, if that is allowed (I hope so), then partner could have cue'd 4♥ to confirm a club control and something. 4♥ made partner place the contract.

It also seems strange that you do not have any option other than a 3♥ call. I have what I think to be a really good suggestion here.

Your 2♥ call is interesting, and I think I might like it. So, after 2NT setting trumps, it seems that you want to focus slow auctions on the 5-4 blacks hand with a 3♣ call. Maybe the balanced hands always through 3♦? Then, the highest call (3♥) for hearts. So, let's expand up a tad.

If I had this start systemically and then tossed in my methods, I'd make 4♣, 4♦, and 4♥ call picture jumps. Each call would show good trumps, meaning two of the top three honors (you have that). Each would show a trick source in my side suit, hearts, meaning three of the top four honors (you have that). When 2♥ is artificial, the immediate picture jumps show pattern for the most expensive suit (highest ranking in the sense of steps from where you start) -- works here. The 4♥ call would deny any side control (first or second), this 5422 pattern. The minor calls would deny any honor control on the side but would show a stiff in the minor that you just bid. Amazingly, one call (4♦) would show this exact hand. Now, I can sit back and let partner decide what to do. (Of course, he now can use weird asking bids -- YumMy TOe's -- in my methods. LOL)

[han]

I am not sure about the methods. If I understand things correctly, partner could have something like Kxx Qx Axxx Axxx for the 3NT bid, but partner would surely go on with that after 4H. So partner doesn't have a hand like that, is minimal, and we could be off 2 quick club tricks. It doesn't seem that we are in a good position, and I echo Echo's cry for a 4D cuebid. Oh well, I guess there is something to be said for sticking to one's methods.

As it is I pass.

[mikeh]

I pass. We have a heart issue, not to mention the risk of 2 minor suit losers, so we lack 5 level safety, not to mention Kxx of trump doesn't assure us of no trump loser

[jdonn]

I can't imagine bidding on. I have shown 5-5 in the majors, and interest opposite partner holding a minimum. What more am I supposed to do? I sort of blame the methods, it seems like partner is somewhat guessing over the 4♥ bid, I don't like using all these 2-way bids at high levels.

[ulven]

Pass. I echo Josh (we had to find common views some day, J )

[Fluffy]

Partner can have a magical hand still, but the more likelly Kxx-Qx-KQxxx-Axx might fail in 5 if trumps don't behave. Pass also

[jdonn]

ulven, on Aug 21 2007, 02:33 AM, said:

Pass. I echo Josh (we had to find common views some day, J )

Another way of saying I had to be right eventually

[skjaeran]

ulven, on Aug 21 2007, 09:33 AM, said:

Pass. I echo Josh (we had to find common views some day, J )

Ditto.

[Gerben42]

Okay you got me, I'll bid 4NT.

[Impact]

If I understand correctly, partner has shown a real minimum with a minor suit A. Given that partner will have revalued HQ, SK, that tends to suggest impure holding - so you should signoff in S here on my understanding of the system in play.

regards

[benlessard]

No clubs control = no slam as simple as that. Partner could have bid a club control instead he bid 3nt... so hes searching for something in clubs or in diamonds and you don`t have it.

I don`t like the problem because you have to better understand what are the option over your 3♥ bid.

Does 3nt tend to show that partner inst afraid of 2 quick looser ?

[FrancesHinden]

Maybe this hand didn't work well as a problem, because it's too caught up in inferences from the system.

Although we play together quite a lot, these sequences don't come up that often so I was trying to work out the rather more subtle inferences at the table as well.

To explain a couple of things:

- We need to get some idea of strength in the auction at some point. Partner's 3NT is the first time she has the chance to limit her hand. Perhaps I didn't fully explain one of the inferences, which Impact has picked up on - if partner was looking for a club control, she could have bid 3S over 3H to see if you could cue. She didn't, instead she opted to show a minimum hand with one (or more) minor suit controls. So by inference, she is probably not desperate for a club control.

- 4D over 3NT is not an option for us because we don't cue shortage in partner's first bid suit (other than in very very specific auctions). 4D shows the ace or king.

Anyway, there's another reason it's not a very good problem - it's that it's hard to say if it's a very good slam or not...

Partner has

J8x
xx
AKxxx
Axx

which is very minimum in HCP for a 2/1 (though obviously upgraded for the minor suit controls).

Slam is playable, though no picnic, as you have to manage the majors for one loser between them. I think 6S is against the odds, but perhaps I'm biased given we played in 4.

We lost 11 imps for +480 against -980, although 6S went off at a number of other tables. (Maybe I should have given it as a play problem!).

[benlessard]

Its kind of a reverse 3nt serious. If partner bid 4♣,4♦,4♥ hes showing extras + the A (without control problems) i guess.

So in that case your 4♥ is real extras not just a courtesy cue-bids so after partner 4S i think you should pass.

Interesting methods however i don`t like the fact that 3nt could show extras (without an available A cue-bids)

Maybe a direct 4♠ showing extras but no -minors A and no need to know cuebids) 3S as worried about cue any strenght cuebids and 3nt as always weakish is better ?

Also do you pick hands where youre unsure if partner if either minimum or maximum without a cuebids ...probably not but maybe.

So basically the 3nt confirm partner values are in minors (otherwise he would bid 3S) so .. passing seems easy.

[benlessard]

Ps its a good slam without a c leads and slightly above 50% with a club leads

without C lead.
AK of heart and low H. IF hearts are 3-3 or 4-2 with LHO having 2 im ok (unless LHO has ♠KTxx♠ or a bare ♠K♠.

Otherwise i have to ruff with the 8 and hope LHO has Tx or KT in spades.

If the Q of H drop early its complicated...




On a likely club lead i have to pitch my club right away so ill miss transportation to deal if north has 2♥.


example

club lead
♦A,
♦K pitch my club loser
♥A
♥K
♥x LHO discard ruffed small,
come back to my hand with a club ruff.
H ruff again (doesnt help north to ruff with K at any time)
J of H hold or lose and its not obvious i will make it.