[mike777]

Assuming you would overcall with a 4 card suit at the one level NV, just how weak overall and in the overcall suit will you be?

KJxx..x....xxxx...xxxx

One spade here?

[kenrexford]

Don't ask me any more -- I'm convinced that this style is not my cup of tea.

That being said, many years ago, my parents taught me that you needed Q10+ to overcall. Maybe that makes sense for the bid-on-any-excuse folks...

[ralph23]

Only if I'm trying to get rid of my partner.

I overcall on 4 card suits at the one level, but this suit and this hand both suck. I need for both of them not to suck.

Some might consider KJ43 to be a "non-suck" but I'm not one of them.

[kenrexford]

ralph23, on Aug 13 2007, 05:35 PM, said:

Some might consider KJ43 to be a "non-suck" but I'm not one of them.

I'd say that KJxx is so much of a "non-suck" that it blows.

[pclayton]

No.

[pbleighton]

Quote

One spade here?

Hell yes.

Peter

[mike777]

I will ask again since I only got one response so far..how weak overall and how poor a suit would you overcall a 4 card suit at the one level NV?

[cherdano]

This has been discussed many times...anyway, I need a nice 4-card suit AND about light takeout double strength to overcall with a 4-card suit. When you overcall a 4-card suit you are actually more likely to play in that suit, as partner is more likely to have support, and when he raises, the opponents are more likely to pass it out (as they each have half a trump more on average) or even double you. So I think 4-card overcalls without some playing strength are just anti-percentage. (My rough guideline is if partner makes a mixed raise to the 3-level and the opponents double me, I want to have a fighting chance at making.)
But then, I don't mind playing with weirdos who overcall 1S over 1C with KJ9x xx xxx Kxxx white on red.bbb

[Robert]

Hi everyone

I used a K10xx standard with a range of 3-13HCP 'taken' directly from an Italian bridge system book(Blue Team?) several decades ago. We also played 'off shape' doubles in the Italian style.

A 4 card overcall should be make on the same type hand when Vul. or non vul.
playing my current style. It tends to be a good suit and an opening bid that has a 'flaw' for making a takeout double.

If you play random 4+ overcalls in 4 card suits, that KJxx fills the bill, however, it is not my current style.

Regards,
Robert

[SoTired]

my style for 4-card overcalls at the 1 level (never at the 2 level) is good suit and almost opener. "Good suit" is ... oh... KQ10x, QJ10x, AKxx. Something that if partner raises on xxx or leads the suit, it won't be embarrassing. Opps rarely dbl a 1-level overcall, so you are not at big risk.

So AKxx xx xxx Kxxx is about a min 1S over 1m overcall for me.

Advancer always assumes you have 5-cards and may preemptive jump raise with 4-card support.

Justin, KQJx and out. Is that really your style or are you joking?

[Free]

After a 1♣ opening 1♠ seems reasonable (since you take away a level of bidding space). After a 1♥ opening however it's just foolish imo (needs to be disciplined).

[reisig]

When choosing a style of 1 level overcalls - keep in mind the negative inference (not overcalling). If you overcall with KQJx and out (my style) - when you fail to bid ..it means something too! These overcalls are used for competing and lead direction. If partner "knows" that you had enough value to bid...but didn't..that has meaning! So when choosing a lead - is not looking for a hidden miracle.

[hrothgar]

I very much like overcalls on 4 card suits.

The thought of calling 1♠ on this hand would never cross my head. WAY too weak. The idea of preempting 2♠ did cross my mind. However, I don't think that i would ever (actually) perpetrate such a bid.

Free raises a valuable point about the amount of bidding space that one will consume.

Here is a representative example of a (minimum) hand where I would give serious consideration to a white versus red overcall of the opponents 1♣ opening.

♠ KT82
♥ 753
♦ KJT2
♣ 32

[Gerben42]

I HAVE preempted with such a hand. It worked. Still I felt funny afterwards...

[Rossoneri]

Playing the overcall structure...no...you need at least 6 HCP.

[goodwintr]

Two spades (over one club) on KQJx and out seems more to the point than one spade: if you are just preempting, you might as well get full value. (Who knows, you may cause penalty doubles to come back into the game!) In all seriousness, if you bid one spade on some of the hands suggested here (KJxx x xxxx xxxx, for example), how in the world can you manage a constructive auction when you really have something? Or do we assume the hand must belong to the opponents, and our bidding is obstructive/lead-directing, just because they open the bidding?

[keylime]

Normally my overcalls are lead directional and not on the lightish side, but I do frequently overcalls good 4 card suits, even at the expense of a shaky five card minor. I want to get my major (especially spades) into play quickly. In terms of rough high card points, at least QT9x or better, I prefer of course KQT9 or better.

[ArcLight]

Jlall, on Aug 14 2007, 11:04 AM, said:

SoTired, on Aug 14 2007, 01:38 AM, said:

Justin, KQJx and out.  Is that really your style or are you joking?

Depends on partner, opps, field, etc, but yes I would often do this.

Justin, I assume you would also bid 1♠ on a much better hand?

Doesn't such a wide ranging overcall range cause problems for your pard?


I don't know much about what is used outside the USA. I see mention of the Italian style where an overcall shows 3-13 HCP. Do all 3 pairs on the Italian team use this?