[han]

Notice that the person who quoted the 3-13 range said "several decades ago". I can't imagine that there are top Italian pairs that still use this range.

[ArcLight]

Jlall, on Aug 14 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

As opposed to that you gain a lot, mainly being a pest to the opps (this is why this type of bid is much better against weak opps, say at the club), you get a lead director in, etc.

Like you need help against weak opps?

Would you be less inclined to do this against experts (with an expert pard)

[neilkaz]

mike777, on Aug 13 2007, 05:28 PM, said:

Assuming you would overcall with a 4 card suit at the one level NV, just how weak overall and in the overcall suit will you be?

KJxx..x....xxxx...xxxx

One spade here?

KJxx for the suit is OK, but I need at least 10 useful HCP to compensate for the fact that my suit is missing a card.

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Aug 14 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

ArcLight, on Aug 14 2007, 11:13 AM, said:

I don't know much about what is used outside the USA.  I see mention of teh Italian style where an overcall shows 3-13 HCP.  Do all 3 pairs on the Italian team use this?

I seriously doubt any of the top Italian pairs today do this.

Yes I would bid 1S on a much better hand, and it causes less problems than you might think it would. Say the auction goes (1C)-1S-(2D) and partner has a 10 count with 4 spades. He won't be thinking about game because the opponents have opened and made a 2/1. No, nobody ever psyches a 2/1 in this auction, so don't give me the "shouldn't partner trust you and not the opponents" thing. It's silly not to listen to their bidding.

The biggest problems come on auctions like 1H-(1S)-4H when the 4H bidder might bid it on a wide range. Then partner has no idea who has what and it's a very tough spot for him. Luckily people usually go through a bid like 2S (limit+) rather than jumping so partner has room to figure it out.

As opposed to that you gain a lot, mainly being a pest to the opps (this is why this type of bid is much better against weak opps, say at the club), you get a lead director in, etc.

The biggest problem is when his idiot partner decides he has something and doubles

[CSGibson]

I would like to ask if it is relevant to anyone else except me as to whether partner has had a chance to bid or not. I'm much more likely to overcall on a bad hand with a 4 card suit if partner is limited.

It seems to me that the three purposes of bidding are to advance your own auction, preempt their auction, and help set the defense. When partner is a passed hand and you are weak, you might as well concentrate your bidding on preempting auctions and setting the defense. The spade suit looks much more lead directional than anything else and has small preemptive value, so I wouldn't object if you overcalled it.

Playing this style it is much more likely that partner will also pinpoint their values when bidding on rather than simply raising 1 spade to 2 spades, also helping set the defense.

[helene_t]

QJ9x would do if I really need to bid and can't think of anything else, say
(1♦)-?
QJ9x-Ax-xxx-AKxx

Make the 9 the 8 and I would either pass or double.