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There was a hand in the spingold where Soloway had something like x Jxx xx AQT98xx.
He was red/white and his RHO opened 1S.
I have always passed with this type of hand, but soloway who is in general considered a sound player for that level of play overcalled 2C. I was wondering about this bid but the more I thought about it the more it made sense.
What bad things can happen? If partner bids 3N you should have good play as you have a lot of tricks. If partner bids 5C that should be fine as you have 7 of them. The only bad thing is partner overestimating your defense and doubling, but Hamman (Soloways partner) never doubles anything anyways, and partner will not X a freely bid game anyways unless he has good trumps. We may even get a nice lead director in if LHO plays 4H or 3N.
Anyways, the 2C overcall did indeed find a cold 3N and at the other table after this hand passed they were shut out of the auction.
I think this is a great hand that illustrates one of the reasons hamman and soloway are so successful.
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Learning from Soloway
#2
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Posted 2007-August-13, 15:30
Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't have overcalled either.
So what should one learn from this? Perhaps that Soloway really tries to bid a suit like that, and that Hamman doesn't often burn him for doing so?
So what should one learn from this? Perhaps that Soloway really tries to bid a suit like that, and that Hamman doesn't often burn him for doing so?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
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#3 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-August-13, 15:32
Hannie, on Aug 13 2007, 04:30 PM, said:
Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't have overcalled either.
So what should one learn from this? Perhaps that Soloway really tries to bid a suit like that, and that Hamman doesn't often burn him for doing so?
So what should one learn from this? Perhaps that Soloway really tries to bid a suit like that, and that Hamman doesn't often burn him for doing so?
I think its that they like hands with a lot of offensive potential/playing strength, that seems to be the biggest factor in their decision whether or not to bid.
#4
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Posted 2007-August-14, 14:07
If I were going to bid with that hand, I'd bid 3♣. Doesn't that describe the hand pretty well: a bunch of ♣ (and they should be decent ones at this vulnerability) and little outside. Partner won't expect any defensive help if he's considering doubling.
Other than leaving the opponents guessing, what's the value of making the same overcall with that hand and a full opener with a decent 5-card suit? 2♣ doesn't even have much preemptive value, except that responder can't bid a forcing NT (but I doubt this is a problem for the class of players Soloway plays against).
Other than leaving the opponents guessing, what's the value of making the same overcall with that hand and a full opener with a decent 5-card suit? 2♣ doesn't even have much preemptive value, except that responder can't bid a forcing NT (but I doubt this is a problem for the class of players Soloway plays against).
#5
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Posted 2007-August-14, 14:20
barmar, on Aug 14 2007, 02:07 PM, said:
If I were going to bid with that hand, I'd bid 3♣. Doesn't that describe the hand pretty well: a bunch of ♣ (and they should be decent ones at this vulnerability) and little outside. Partner won't expect any defensive help if he's considering doubling.
I just checked, Hamway seem to be playing intermediate jump overcalls when red.
barmar, on Aug 14 2007, 02:07 PM, said:
Other than leaving the opponents guessing, what's the value of making the same overcall with that hand and a full opener with a decent 5-card suit? 2♣ doesn't even have much preemptive value, except that responder can't bid a forcing NT (but I doubt this is a problem for the class of players Soloway plays against).
Jlall, on Aug 13 2007, 03:32 PM, said:
I think its that they like hands with a lot of offensive potential/playing strength, that seems to be the biggest factor in their decision whether or not to bid.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#6
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Posted 2007-August-14, 14:21
barmar, on Aug 14 2007, 03:07 PM, said:
If I were going to bid with that hand, I'd bid 3♣. Doesn't that describe the hand pretty well: a bunch of ♣ (and they should be decent ones at this vulnerability) and little outside. Partner won't expect any defensive help if he's considering doubling.
I have been thinking that maybe I need to reverse that red vs. white. I've noticed that I can't seem to find a hand too weak to bid 2 clubs, and yet strong enough to bid 3 clubs and survive a double. Surely such hands exist, but saving 3 clubs for a 7 card suit doesn't seem very useful.
If I do play IJOs Red vs. White, then the 2 club bid ought to show...well, this hand, or maybe a hair stronger.
Maybe Soloway-Hamman play IJO's at this seating and vulnerability?
Edited to Add- looks like they do:
http://public.aci.on...man-soloway.pdf
This post has been edited by jtfanclub: 2007-August-14, 14:26
#7
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Posted 2007-August-14, 14:31
Yes, they play IJO's when vulnerable, so it seems consistent to overcall 2♣ on a hand like this.
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#8 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-August-14, 14:32
Hamway def play 3C=intermediate vul. I guarantee if they played 3C as weak they would not bid it red/white (which is why they play it as int lol). I don't see why playing int jump overcalls makes it consistent to overcall 2C with this. Playing IJO does not mean 2C overcall=a preempt.
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Posted 2007-August-14, 15:18
Jlall, on Aug 14 2007, 03:32 PM, said:
Playing IJO does not mean 2C overcall=a preempt.
Well, no, but it seems like if you play IJOs then bidding 2 clubs with this hand is a lot safer, as your partner's going to take you for, say 8-11 instead of 8-15.
#10
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Posted 2007-August-14, 15:25
jtfanclub, on Aug 14 2007, 03:18 PM, said:
Jlall, on Aug 14 2007, 03:32 PM, said:
Playing IJO does not mean 2C overcall=a preempt.
Well, no, but it seems like if you play IJOs then bidding 2 clubs with this hand is a lot safer, as your partner's going to take you for, say 8-11 instead of 8-15.
Nope, partner is playing you for 8-19 anyway, with a 1435 19-count you will still overcall 2♣. (If that's good enough to double just put in whatever your top range with that shape for a non-double is, the point is that range doesn't change whether you play IJO or not.)
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-August-14, 15:32
BTW for them IJO means something like xx x Axx AKJxxxx, not a random 13 count with 6+C. It is a lot of tricks (heavier than most people on the forums seem to play it). And yes to everything cherdano said.
#12
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Posted 2007-August-14, 16:26
I just can't see passing with 7 clubs to the AQT. I wonder if Soloway would bid 3♣ if it wasn't available as a IJO. I'm guessing most experts would be about 3:1 for a 3♣ call versus a pass.
I still don't this its inconsistent to overcall 2♣ on this playing IJO's. If not, you are really limiting your range for a simple overcall, since all IJO's fall into a normal 2♣ basket. Note that 2♣ can be a lot of different hands, including this hand type.
I still don't this its inconsistent to overcall 2♣ on this playing IJO's. If not, you are really limiting your range for a simple overcall, since all IJO's fall into a normal 2♣ basket. Note that 2♣ can be a lot of different hands, including this hand type.
"Phil" on BBO
#13
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Posted 2007-August-14, 23:52
Its an offensive ratio -- defensive ratio agreement. Either you allow light HCP--low defense overcall and reach some light HCP games but never X the opponent. Or you play sound HCP high defensive overcall so you can X them but miss some games. I don`t mind either style as long as both partners are on the same wavelenght.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#14
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Posted 2007-August-15, 00:35
Soloway's actual holding was ♠5, ♥J54,♦32,♣AQT6543.
It was bd19 in the round of 8, seg 4 of Nickell v Schwartz. All available at the Vugraph Project
It was bd19 in the round of 8, seg 4 of Nickell v Schwartz. All available at the Vugraph Project
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