[cherdano]

Scoring: IMP

(2♦) P (3♦) P
(P) ??

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[Halo]

xxxx

I'm protecting. Guess my system said I couldn't bid last time.

[cherdano]

Halo, on Aug 5 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

xxxx

I'm protecting. Guess my system said I couldn't bid last time.

Wrong guess, you play no system over 2♦ except 3♦ = stopper ask.

[Halo]

cherdano, on Aug 5 2007, 04:54 PM, said:

Halo, on Aug 5 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

xxxx

I'm protecting.  Guess my system said I couldn't bid last time.

Wrong guess, you play no system over 2♦ except 3♦ = stopper ask.

(Sigh)

3H

I'm protecting.

[han]

I think that xxxx is enough. Did you have this hand in the Spingold Arend?

[ArtK78]

Always balance. Pard could have a good hand on this auction, and it doesn't take much to make a game.

One of your choices is "There is no hand that can balance 3H that couldn't overcall 2H." That is SO WRONG. A direct overcall of a preempt should be solid - at least an above average opening hand. But when the bidding comes back to you and it is clear that the opps do not have a game, then partner has something and you must act.

[cherdano]

Hannie, on Aug 6 2007, 02:45 AM, said:

I think that xxxx is enough. Did you have this hand in the Spingold Arend?

Nooo I never had a hand like this. (And if I did, I wouldn't admit.)

It wasn't in the Spingold, though.

[awm]

I'd be a bit more careful than some people here. A few issues:

Sometimes people raise 2♦ to 3♦ because they want to double 3M but are unsure about doubling 2M. I have seen people get doubled on auctions like this one very frequently.

While it's true we might have game, partner needs to know when to raise to game and when to pass. The best hand for partner that's at all frequent will be something like 12-15 balanced. I'd like to make game opposite this hand, because I expect partner to frequently raise with it. Give partner say Kxxx Axx Axx Kxx, which is really not a minimum for a game bid, and we see that 4♥ needs the club ace onside and one of clubs 3-3 or hearts 2-2, not such a great bet.

I'd like the club queen or king for a balance.

[keylime]

I voted for the K-J-x-x holding because normally I'm hyperactive in 2nd seat. If I couldn't find a call there, my 4th seat balance better be reasonable (I might balance on K-T-x-x or A-T-x-x but that wasn't listed).

I've been doubled balancing on similar handtypes down a lot because I felt honor-bound to balance until RHO pounded it and my J-x-x-x suit didn't amount to anything opposite 2 dead in the dummy.

[ArtK78]

keylime, on Aug 6 2007, 02:42 PM, said:

I voted for the K-J-x-x holding because normally I'm hyperactive in 2nd seat. If I couldn't find a call there, my 4th seat balance better be reasonable (I might balance on K-T-x-x or A-T-x-x but that wasn't listed).

Hyperactive in second seat? I assume that you mean in direct seat over the preempt.

That is not normal expert practice. As I mentioned several posts up, the normal practice is to have a sound hand - no less than an above-average opening hand - for a direct action over a preempt. There are some exceptions - hands where you know that partner may not be able to balance with reasonable values. For example, if you are extremely short in the preemptor's suit, partner may have a balanced hand with length in that suit and will have no action in passout seat. In that case, you should act with less than a sound hand.

Overcalling a preempt with minimal opening values or even less (gaakkk!) is an invitation to disaster. There is a phrase - never preempt over a preempt. Like most phrases that have entered the bridge lexicon, there is sound rational behind it.

If your direct actions over preempts are wide-ranging, you are putting incredible pressure on partner to make winning decisions. Not only that, partner may have problems in competitive auctions which will create ethical problems for both of you. For example, consider this particular hand. Suppose you overcalled 2H and LHO bid 3D. Partner goes into the tank for 25-30 seconds and doubles. Do you pull? What if he doubles immediately (I know, none of your partners would do such a thing).

If your direct actions over preempts are always sound, then both you and your partner will have fewer problems. Balancing situations may be more difficult, but they may not even arise depending on the auction.

[pclayton]

Im one of the xxxx's.

I'm very surprised folks think this is an auto-balance.

[keylime]

I'm quite versed in the never preempt a preempt deal. It was burned into my psyche when I was greenhorn a few years ago.

Since we are hyperactive in 2nd seat, pard knows to give us some room with regards to invites and such, and we have agreements to cater to a slightly larger range. Preempts being of the aggressive nature these days has helped to determine our above average overcalling style.

Phil, if I held xxxx and pard didn't act, why would you balance? Furthermore as an adjunct, how sensitive are we to colors and such?

[pclayton]

keylime, on Aug 6 2007, 04:10 PM, said:

Phil, if I held xxxx and pard didn't act, why would you balance?

Because there is an excellent chance that pard has a balanced 12-14 on this bidding.

I'm more worried about missing a game than I am going for a number in 3♥

[keylime]

The balanced 12-14 handtype makes sense in this context - I can't see doubling with this hand and having pard bid 3♠ in response.

Would pard then double on 12-14 with 2/3 dead in their suit? With 2 dead there is some merit to doubling but not on 3 dead.

[awm]

So suppose you do balance, and partner has something on the order of 12-14 balanced. Do you expect partner to virtually always pass your balancing 3♥, virtually always bid 4♥/3nt, or some of either depending on whether he holds prime cards?

[han]

keylime, I'm not sure what this hyperactive means, but if you act very aggressively directly, doesn't that make it safer to act with this hand now? After all, your partner will know that you won't have a much better hand than this.

In response to Art, I don't think that you need an above-average opening hand to act immediately, especially with a good suit and shortness in their suit. For example, with Qx KQ10xxx x Axxx I would think bidding 2H over 2D is automatic.

Arend, I remember now, my lips are sealed.

[keylime]

Han, with the given hand, at the wrong colors it may not be safe. The clubs are not as much the issue as the Q-x of spades which is an unknown value. My shortness in diamonds is attractive but the soft spade holding isn't.

On 12-14 counts the best holding pard could have is the AS, the AH, and the AQ of clubs, and I'd expect a double with that hand unless it is square. At favorable colors I probably come in versus unfavorable.

[ArtK78]

Hannie, if you look at my post, you will see that I stated that there is an exception to having an above-average opening hand or better for a direct action over a preempt. It is exactly the hand that you described - a hand with shortness in the preemptor's suit and a good suit to overcall. Still, you have to tread warily, as partner assumes that you have a good hand when you act in direct seat over a preempt.

[pclayton]

keylime, on Aug 7 2007, 04:52 AM, said:

Han, with the given hand, at the wrong colors it may not be safe. The clubs are not as much the issue as the Q-x of spades which is an unknown value. My shortness in diamonds is attractive but the soft spade holding isn't.

On 12-14 counts the best holding pard could have is the AS, the AH, and the AQ of clubs, and I'd expect a double with that hand unless it is square. At favorable colors I probably come in versus unfavorable.

I agree: ♠Axxx ♥Axx ♦xxx ♣AQx is a pretty useful 14 count, and 3♥ looks pretty good. Furthermore, we are probably only taking 1-2♠, 1-2♥ and 1-2♣ against 3♦.

But back off this hand a little: ♠Kxxx ♥Ax ♦xxx ♣KJxx. We aren't making 4♥, but wouldn't you rather play 3♥ instead of defending 3♦? We still are winning 5-6 IMPs for the part score.

If you only increase this hand a little, then 4♥ is looking better and better.

So what should pard do over our balance? Hopefully he'll pass most of the time with the hand we think he has. I can see us occasionally getting overboard if he has a the 14 Dwayne mentions. Notice that even with ♠Axxx ♥Axx ♦xxx ♣AQx we aren't automatically down.

if pard does hold ♠Axxx ♥Axx ♦xxx ♣AQx, I would expect he passes 3♦. I'd need another K or Q to act with a 3334.

My only 'fear' on this auction is that LHO is playing games on something like: ♠AKxx ♥AJxx ♦x ♣Kxxx.