[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 1♥    2♦    Pass  2NT
 Pass  3NT   Pass  Pass
 Pass  

[helene_t]

Maybe you stretched an HCP but with your positional ♥ guard, 2N is fine.

Pd should rebid 3♠, no reason to think you don't have four spades.

[mike777]

call me a beginner
I prefer double and not 2d

[helene_t]

mike777, on Jul 30 2007, 09:52 AM, said:

call me a beginner
I prefer double and not 2d

You play equal level conversion if S bids 2♣ over your double? Then dbl is fine of course.

Otherwise N has a difficult hand. I think I would pass. 2nd choice 1♠.

[mike777]

helene_t, on Jul 30 2007, 03:05 AM, said:

mike777, on Jul 30 2007, 09:52 AM, said:

call me a beginner
I prefer double and not 2d

You play equal level conversion if S bids 2♣ over your double? Then dbl is fine of course.

Otherwise N has a difficult hand. I think I would pass. 2nd choice 1♠.

We agree to disagree.....


I must bid something with 14 hcp....something.....

[helene_t]

If you insist that you have to bid something with 14 HCP, I think the best style is to overcall frequently on a 4-card major and make your follow-up structure so that advancer can catter for it. ELC solves this particular hand but not the ones with the minors switched. Raptor solves those but then you have to pass with some balanced 16-counts.

If N passes, S will balance with 1N, and 4♠ will be reached.

[mike777]

helene_t, on Jul 30 2007, 03:36 AM, said:

If you insist that you have to bid something with 14 HCP, I think the best style is to overcall frequently on a 4-card major and make your follow-up structure so that advancer can catter for it. ELC solves this particular hand but not the ones with the minors switched. Raptor solves those but then you have to pass with some balanced 16-counts.

If N passes, S will balance with 1N, and 4♠ will be reached.

Well all these fancy conventions may help..but I think are played so seldom i give up.

Agree we must bid something with 14 hcp....natural even natural 4 card suit should be fine.

Here over 1H i think i can x to show 4 spades....even with no elc I will pass 2c........


Raptor sounds so cool...please put up all the hundreds of hands in north america that play it

I lose because i forget the bidding, i forget dummy, i forget 13 cards in a suit...not raptor

[kenrexford]

After 2NT, North has a clear, IMO, 3♠ call.

This, of course, raises an unraised question. What would North do without a heart stop, but four spades?

It seems to me that 3♥ asks about a second heart stopper. Advancer can bid 3♠ to show four spades and no answer yet to the heart-stopper question. If that interests North, North raises to 4♠. If not, North declines by bidding 3NT, which does not change his message from earlier -- North still has no second heart stop.

Thus, 3♠, in bypassing 3♥, should show four spades and some help in hearts. This implies a lack of club cards, mildly, which might cause concern for South if South had held 3442, instead.

[ArtK78]

I don't see the problem. I bid 3D over 2D. If partner has a good enough hand to invite game and needs a heart stop, he can bid 3H. If he wants to try for game naturally, he can bid 3S.

2NT, even by a passed hand, is not only an overbid, it is a misdescription. You have 4 card diamond support to the K. Raise.

As for the original overcall, it seems perfectly normal to me. If you play equal level conversion, you might get away with a double on this hand. But if LHO bids 2H (let alone 3H), you can lose the diamond suit or get too high when partner competes in clubs. So a double is not clearly right on these cards.

[FrancesHinden]

There's no law that says you are obliged to bid just because you have 14 HCP.
I don't mind 2D
I don't mind x that much.
I don't mind pass.

I hate 1S

I really hate South's 2NT bid. He has FOUR CARD DIAMOND SUPPORT and ONE HEART STOP. Why make a bid that denies diamond support and shows good stuff in hearts? Either 2H (good raise, my choice) or 3D (poor raise) are reasonable.

I am fine with raising 2NT to 3NT, because I simply don't expect such a hand from South.

[helene_t]

I object strongly to the 2♦ overcall. Pass, 1♠, dbl and even 1NT are better, IMHO. The problem with 2♦ is not only that you may miss the spade suit (while finding a spade fit is pretty much the only reason why you want to get involved at IMPs red/red with a passed partner) but also the suit length and quality doesn't even remotely look like a vulnerable 2-level overcall at IMPs.

[blackshoe]

What are the alertnatives for North's first call?

Pass: presumably intending to come in later. Personally, I don't like this one. I prefer to bid. After all, that's why I paid my table fee, ain't it?

1♠: Shows my chunky spade suit, but doesn't show my diamonds.

1NT: Yuck. Double Yuck.

2♦: my longest suit, sure, but... when am I going to get to show my spades?

X: As said, playing ELC this is fine, although perhaps a bit strong (see below).

2♠: IIRC, Hardy, in his last book (Advanced Bidding for the 21st Century) suggested a jump to 2 of a major to show this type hand (with spades and clubs, he'd cue bid), but I'd have to check as I'm not completely sure it applies after a major opening. Hardy also uses ELC, but ISTR that would show a weaker hand (or perhaps not, my memory's fuzzy, and the book's packed away about 300 miles from here).

Not playing Hardy's methods, I'll overcall 1♠ and hope to show the diamonds later. Playing Hardy's methods, it's either X or 2♠.

After North's 2♦, 2NT is just wrong. Support with support. South should bid 3♦. The hand's a bit weak for 2♥.

[han]

I really don't like 2NT, this is a clear 3D bid.

[cherdano]

Agree with Frances and Han. I don't get it why some start a style discussion on a difficult bid when there is an obvious mistake (2N). (I suppose I don't need to mention that I disagree with Ken on his claim that 3♠ implies heart help and suggests a club problem.)

[mikeh]

The only area where I would disagree with Frances' post, and this is a quibble, is that I would not play 2N as denying diamond support... altho I can't remember the last time I held 4 card support... Hxx is a holding that actually encourages me to stretch to bid 2N, since 2♦ will, more often than not, show 6 cards...especially when I hold the K. But it wouldn't occur to me to bid 2N here.

As for N's bid over 2N, I don't like 3♠. Partner probably has at most one sure heart stopper, given that I hold the Ace, so when I express doubt about 3N, as 3♠ does, I may well miss a good 3N game.

Yes, bidding 3♠ allows me to back into a 4-4 spade fit, which I might otherwise miss (but see below), but bidding is imperfect... we cannot cover all the possibilities...

As for North's first bid, I really don't like ELC.... I find it amusing that everyone who ever posts an ELC auction assumes that partner never bids more than 3♣.

Of course, the reason they do that is because they are usually heading for a disaster when partner bids clubs at a higher level. And those who favour ELC or other pet theories don't like to think about the hands where the gadget doesn't work.

Personally, this fetish about having to bid whenever we have points has never appealed to me. So I can live with pass, I can live with 2♦.

For me, S raises to 3♦... since I like to use transfer advances, I would choose 3♣, good constructive to limit raise, and I think N may be strong enough to try 3♠... if opener doubles 3♣, as he well might, then I am definitely good enough to bid 3♠ since that call will decrease the risk of S having a lot of wasted club values.

[ArtK78]

I have a very mediocre 9 count with Kxxx in diamond support and Kxx of hearts poorly placed in front of the heart bidder. I don't believe we have a game, but I have enough to raise to 3D.

Partner needs a very good hand to produce a game. He knows if he has it. I leave subsequent actions up to him.

At IMPs, there is no reason to play a partial in spades rather than diamonds. As for game, that is another matter entirely. But there is no reason why responder should suspect that there is a spade game on these cards.

I find it hard to understand why so many are interested in introducing a good 4 card spade suit ahead of a reasonable 5 card diamond suit. You will certainly get to game more often by overcalling spades, but the game you get to may be the wrong one.