[sceptic]

I sat down at a table, did not know anyone and opened the bidding 1NT

after the hand everyone left, am I paranoid or just plain ***** at this game, the previous hand, I sat at the table and my pard started gobbing off about a bid the previous occupant had made, main bridge club is becoming painful some days

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  Pass  1NT   Pass
 2♥    Dbl   2♠    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

HK H4 H6 HJ
HA H9 H3 H2
DT DK D5 D2
S2 SK SA S5
S8 ST S3 S6
D8 D3 D7 DA
C3 C8 CT C5
C2 H7 CJ CA
D4 D6 D9 DQ
CK C6 DJ H8
CQ C9 S7 SJ
SQ C4 H5 S4
HQ C7 HT S9

[ArcLight]

Why not open 1♣ and rebid 3♣?

[sceptic]

why not indeed, do you not need 19 for that?

[ArtK78]

1NT is not outrageous.

1C followed by 3C is not outrageous, either. It is more mainstream than opening 1NT, and, no, it does not require 19 HCP (it is not a jump-shift and is not forcing).

Some players do play that a jump rebid of a minor suit opening bid is forcing, and requires a very good suit and about 18 HCP. But that is not a standard agreement.

[DrTodd13]

sceptic, on Jul 26 2007, 12:56 PM, said:

why not indeed, do you not need 19 for that?

What? 1♣ then 3♣ is 15-17 with 6+♣. If you have this shape and 18+ and open 1♣ and pd bids a major then you have to temporize a game forcing rebid. Assuming you are talking about some variety of standard american. Welcome to the wonderful world of sucky systems.

[BebopKid]

I cannot fathom why anyone would open 1NT with a 6-card suit or worse with 2 doubleton majors.

[EricK]

1NT is not a terrible bid but it is an underbid. If partner has ♣A and any sort of semi-stop in ♥ you have a great play for 3NT, and many hands without the ♣A but 6 or so well placed points will also do.

If you don't want to bid 1♣ followed by 3♣ (which is the middle-of-the-road approach with this hand), you could always try 1♣ followed by 2NT, which is about right in terms of strength.

[ArcLight]

The reason I say 1♣ - 3♣ is I don't really want to count the heart jack as 1.

I'm not sure this is worth a game forcing jump shift on the 2nd bid.

Rebidding 2NT is right on HCP, though the doubleton majors may be a problem, especially hearts.

I really dont like 1NT

[Robert]

Hi everyone

Maybe they were meeting someone for another game/match? The North player might have left after South managed to avoid bidding hearts holding AK10x 'after' he put in a lead directing bid of hearts.

North might not like missing a 3H contract 'after' he had doubled the 2H bid.
South should be bidding hearts unless he 'new something more' about the North bidding style. Those kind of lead directing doubles sometimes lead to 2HXXed making an overtrick or two.

In standard type methods, I would open 1C and rebid 3Cs(16-18). One NT is a somewhat less likely call, however, not nearly a very bad one.

Many posters rebid 3m with 15-17(or less) which is a matter of their opening bid style. Given the light opening bids that some(many?) make, the followup rebids must be lighter if their bidding is to make sense.

If you were playing Kaplan Sheinwold methods, this hand would open 1C and rebid 2D*(a KS 'minor reverse' that would be a one round force) and rebid 3C later.

A direct 3m rebid in KS is used with minor type hands that would open 2C in standard methods and rebid in a major.

I sometimes open 1NT with 15-17HCP and a six card minor. It is used to avoid rebid problems.

Some textbooks also suggest 1NT with 2227 AQ AQ AJ xxxxxxx
so the BebopKid has led a somewhat sheltered life in bridge bidding terms.

The posts about opening 1NT or 2NT with 4441 and 1345 shapes also must have slipped past the BebopKid.

Opening 1NT with 2245 and 2=4=2=5 or 2=4=5=2 is often suggested in bridge books to avoid a rebid problem.

I do agree with EricK if your 1NT range is 15-17, if you play 16-18 your bidding is merely a matter of following your bidding style.

Regards,
Robert

[neilkaz]

BebopKid, on Jul 26 2007, 05:00 PM, said:

I cannot fathom why anyone would open 1NT with a 6-card suit or worse with 2 doubleton majors.

We agree. Just open 1♣ and rebid 3♣ or upgrade to a 2NT rebid opposite a 1♥ response if you want.

[ArtK78]

Robert, on Jul 26 2007, 06:43 PM, said:

Some textbooks also suggest 1NT with 2227 AQ AQ AJ xxxxxxx

Really? Is that a Geography textbook? A History textbook? Certainly not a bridge textbook.

[neilkaz]

ArtK78, on Jul 26 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

Robert, on Jul 26 2007, 06:43 PM, said:

Some textbooks also suggest 1NT with 2227 AQ  AQ  AJ  xxxxxxx

Really? Is that a Geography textbook? A History textbook? Certainly not a bridge textbook.

A can see the point of this textbook and probably have it (suspecting it is buy Hardy but too lazy to search thru several).

Get rid of one of those ♣ x's and I'll open 1NT, but with 7 of them I think about about opening 1♣ and jump rebidding 3♣ (although that makes me choke a bit also).

The problem with opening 1NT on Wayne's hand here is, IMHO, you have a wide open suit and worse support when transfered and passed in a major perhaps -1 when 3♣ has play for an OT.

With those good clubs I can construct hands with good play for a 6♣ (5♣ ice) where after 1NT you end up in 3NT and are set.

.. neilkaz ..

[ochinko]

neilkaz, on Jul 27 2007, 05:55 AM, said:

ArtK78, on Jul 26 2007, 08:40 PM, said:

Robert, on Jul 26 2007, 06:43 PM, said:

Some textbooks also suggest 1NT with 2227 AQ  AQ  AJ  xxxxxxx

Really? Is that a Geography textbook? A History textbook? Certainly not a bridge textbook.

A can see the point of this textbook and probably have it (suspecting it is buy Hardy but too lazy to search thru several).

Get rid of one of those ♣ x's and I'll open 1NT, but with 7 of them I think about about opening 1♣ and jump rebidding 3♣ (although that makes me choke a bit also).

The problem with opening 1NT on Wayne's hand here is, IMHO, you have a wide open suit and worse support when transfered and passed in a major perhaps -1 when 3♣ has play for an OT.

With those good clubs I can construct hands with good play for a 6♣ (5♣ ice) where after 1NT you end up in 3NT and are set.

.. neilkaz ..

I don't think a minor suit without an honor deserves mentioning, let alone repeating with a jump.

AQ is at least as good as xxx, and if your partner has 5 card major, he won't repeat it, and you'll miss it. Whereas over 1NT he could transfer with it, and you'll know there are 5.

If you really bid AQ-AQ-AJ-xxxxxxx with 1♣-?-3♣ you'll go down in 5♣ when 3NT makes, or worse - go down in 3NT when 6M makes.

[helene_t]

The hand may be a tad strong for 1NT, but at least with respect to shape and honor structure you have my sympathy, and I suppose that of Kathryn as well

As for a 3♣ rebid, Todd is right.

[hotShot]

This was an opening in 3rd hand! Opening 1NT with a semibalanced hand is no crime. We have discussed weak 3rd hand openings a lot in this forum and many where in favor of them. We discussed how to open weak shaped hands and often agreed that the 1 level is the best choice.
Now holding a strongish semibalanced hand, you have to tell your partner that you're not weak this time and you want to make it hard for LHO to enter the auction. So maybe 1NT is not your choice, but it's not a bad choice.

[helene_t]

hotShot, on Jul 27 2007, 09:41 AM, said:

This was an opening in 3rd hand! Opening 1NT with a semibalanced hand is no crime. We have discussed weak 3rd hand openings a lot in this forum and many where in favor of them. We discussed how to open weak shaped hands and often agreed that the 1 level is the best choice.
Now holding a strongish semibalanced hand, you have to tell your partner that you're not weak this time and you want to make it hard for LHO to enter the auction. So maybe 1NT is not your choice, but it's not a bad choice.

Nah, no matter how frivolous you 3rd seat opening style, opening 1♣ and rebidding 3♣ promises the same as it would in other seats. So does rebidding 2♣ IMHO but I know that some disagree.

[hotShot]

helene_t, on Jul 27 2007, 10:07 AM, said:

hotShot, on Jul 27 2007, 09:41 AM, said:

This was an opening in 3rd hand! Opening 1NT with a semibalanced hand is no crime. We have discussed weak 3rd hand openings a lot in this forum and many where in favor of them. We discussed how to open weak shaped hands and often agreed that the 1 level is the best choice.
Now holding a strongish semibalanced hand, you have to tell your partner that you're not weak this time and you want to make it hard for LHO to enter the auction. So maybe 1NT is not your choice, but it's not a bad choice.

Nah, no matter how frivolous you 3rd seat opening style, opening 1♣ and rebidding 3♣ promises the same as it would in other seats. So does rebidding 2♣ IMHO but I know that some disagree.

I don't disagree about that, but 1♣ allows your LHO to throw in his 5cM with 8+ HCP.

This time LHO does not have a 5cM, but you're not always this lucky.

[MickyB]

Randomers leave all the time in MBC, for any number of reasons...I wouldn't worry about it. 1NT looks fine to me. Better this club suit than, say, AKxxxx, when if pard has xxxx you are getting 6 fast tricks from only 7 HCP.

[Wackojack]

I hate the 1NT opening and think that 1♣, rebid 3♣ (non forcing of course) with 17HCP and 7.5 playing tricks is just perfect. Also after the double in front of you I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) that completing the transfer with a bid of 2♠ would normally show 3 spades. However after the understatement of 1NT, I can see that you are obliged to bid 2♠ to give your partner some encouragement.

Comments on NS bidding:

I dont like North's double of 2♥ it suggest a better suit to lead to in defence and the points are in the wrong suit. Having heard North's double of 2♥ and west's bid of 2♠, I think South is justified in bidding 4♥. The fact that South passed suggests he didn't understand what the double meant.

Don't worry about players leaving, it seems to be happen regardless.

[pdmunro]

sceptic, on Jul 26 2007, 03:48 PM, said:

after the hand everyone left, am I paranoid or just plain ***** at this game, the previous hand, I sat at the table and my pard started gobbing off about a bid the previous occupant had made, main bridge club is becoming painful some days

My 2 cents worth.

A few years ago at my local bridge club, I had a partner with whom I decided to meet and discuss the hands. It was not a success. For every argument that I put forward, he had a counter-argument. It took me some time - I am a slow learner - but I eventually realized that he just liked the argumentative process.

I could see that I could never "win" an argument with this guy. So I stopped trying to convince him of anything. Actually, I am forever grateful that he taught me the pointlessness of arguing.

Forget about trying to educate partner. Much better is to just go over a hand and educate oneself. It's something chess grandmasters learned long ago. (They never had a partner to blame!) They will look at a particular position for up to a week. Slowly all the nuances make themselves known and become part of the memory bank.

The MAJOR reason why I play on BBO is because the bidding and play is recorded. I can look back at my hands and also check out what happened at the other tables.

Prompted by Jlall's advice in these forums, I am reviewing my hands more frequently. I use Double Dummy Solver http://www.bridgemat...downloadDD.html to find all the permutations for a hand. DDS is great because it can read BBO files. It's fast and it's free.

Regarding imps scoring on BBO, I have concluded that there are two key factors that influence ones results enormously, and over which you have little control: (1) Which pair has the game-scoring cards? (2) Did they bid game with them?

Say the opponents have the cards and are competent enough to get to game. It is almost guaranteed that 3 or 4 pairs, out of the 16, will not bid game. So the opponents chalk up say 4 -5 imps. If the opponents get a run of good cards, after 6 boards, one is guaranteed to be behind 20-30 imps.

Similarly, if your side gets a run of game-scoring hands, there's no point in feeling superior when one racks up 20-30 imps. As long as you can bid your games, you will win your imps. To repeat, this is chiefly a consequence of 3-4 pairs not bidding game.

It is hard to remain focused when suffering a run of losses. I fell apart in that situation the other night. The opponents were unkind ;-) : they had the cards and they made a minimal number of errors. Under the pressure, I made a couple of “oops”. Plus I was tired.

I like playing in the main bridge club. Of course, there is a lot of "rough and tumble", but I think the key is not to say anything.

Never answer a partner if he asks, "Why did you ...?". Even if you just type "y” (as in "Yes I agree"), it can lead to further comments by your partner. And a hidden danger is that partner starts thinking about your hand rather than his own. That is a fatal mistake. If I start thinking about what partner should or shouldn't have done, I find I lose focus and start making mistakes myself.

I try to keep out of the opponents "discussions". For some reason, neither opponent seems to appreciate my wise advice. :-) The only thing I occasionally do is send a private message of support to an intermediate opponent, if I feel he is being harassed by his partner.

I have tried bridge4money.com a few times. There you cannot speak to your partners. In fact you have no idea who they are. It could be Zia! You make your decisions and you win and lose your money based on those decisions. Everything is completely anonymous. A “no blame” game. A great learning experience.

I have found Josh Waitzin’s book of great assistance. http://www.joshwaitzkin.com/bio.html He writes about becoming a chess International Master and a Tai Chi martial arts world champion. Specifically, he addresses the issues of anger and frustration. In both these ultra-competitive games/sports, the opponents are out to unsettle you. Even the organizers may try to unsettle you, if they want their national champion to win. So you have to practice coping with anger and frustration. This was the best part of his book for me.