[sallyally]

My regular partner and I have a big problem. At a regular table, and especially at a tournament we state our system, carding and discards at the beginning. Most pairs do not. Sometimes even when asked to do so, there is no compliance. It is aggravating to always be calling the director and in one instance we were "put down" for having done so.

The last tournament we played in we clicked on the 5 heart response to 4 nt. What we were told was "no information available".

Also - if splinters are alertable - there was no alert.

Is there any way to get pairs to be forthcoming with their system information and alerts?

Disgrunted

[the hog]

You are not playing ftf; you are not playing for sheep stations; you are frequently playing pick up partnerships. Just "Go with the flow". If this really bothers you, arrange to play against friends who will post ccs.

[inquiry]

Unlike the hog, I fully sympathize with sallyally. It would be great if everyone posted a covention card, but at the very least people should explain bids when asked about them and alert splinters when they are made. Bridge isn't a game of "guess" what your opponents are doing. You have a right to know their methods.

Ben

[bearmum]

OK my 2 cent's worth
1. In MOST tourneys I play with a pick up P and have NO time to fill in the BBO CC (Which takes AGES AND AGES )
2. If I can get agreements(assuming Standatd American) on Better minor or short club? transfers (minors too) NT range B/W or RKCB i consider myself lucky

3> In a tourney IF the opps refuse to reply to questions you ask CALL the directo and complain -- HOPEFULLY some directors MIGHT keep lists of those players who don't explain ( However some players have no English -- BUT should try to explain anyway)
In just a pickup game if opps refuse to answer as to what bids mean - ask your pard to coma to a new table and add a comment on the offender's profile so you know in future to avoid that person

[sceptic]

Well, I play with pick up p's most of the time, because I have a spare hour here and there, I dont have time to agree a system with a pick up p and people playing on the net should realise that. tollerance is the key on line.

If you are that concerned about playing with someone with a fully explained system and someone that alerts everybid, I hope you are not like me and don't understand them any way, so whether they post them or alert them, would it help you at all??????

I have never played live bridge, but from what I have heard the behaviour and attitude of people is far better on line.

[DrTodd13]

Also, remember that "no agreement" is often a valid answer especially
in new pdships. I'll alert things like splinters even though people
rarely agree to play them explicitly...they are sort of assumed. I just
go on the principle of the opps are entitled to know whatever my pd
knows. If I have no idea what my pd thinks my 4N response means
then I'm not obligated to tell my opps what is in my hand? I know
others will probably disagree.

On the point of CCs, I often invite pick-up pds to go to a
partnership bidding table where I'll load a standard CC. Partner
can then add or remove as they wish. This doesn't take more
than a few minutes. People are just lazy and don't want to do it.

[luis]

Again and again players are confused about the alert procedure.
Self alerting in online bridge is frequently missunderstood as if players were obliged to explain each of their own bids.
You have to alert what you have agreed with your pd, if you don't have an agreement you don't have to explain what each of your bids means.

[Trpltrbl]

I think people should tell at least some of the basics they play at beginning of each round. Takes about 5 seconds to post and it makes you look polite.

Mike

[Free]

Yes, and if you copy to the clipboard, you just have to press <ctrl><v> and your text is shown...

[dugite]

With my usual P I am one of the alerters.We have a lot of cons and love trotting them out(we play here to practice for analogue bridge).Some are quite complicated and take some time to type in(sometimes ages as my typing finger gets sore and the keys seem to change positions on the keyboard when I am not looking).We find that the easiest way to explain is by using the "chat to ops"button so as not to have cram 30 words into a space sized for 10 words.There is a problem sometimes---when the ops query what a bid means anything you have already typed in is wiped and you must do it again.We also often explain the entire auction after it is over.

One thing that makes alerting harder online is the difference in rules arround the world.What we alert here in Oz is not alertable in the US and vice versa.

I use the principle that if the ops may not know what a bid means then I will alert.I strive to be ethical online as well as at a table.It costs nothing to engender some good will.

Any bridge is good bridge but happy bridge is better.

The Snake

[Yzerman]

Couple of suggestion for BBO/Uday regarding this topic;

1) Would it be possible to have a 'warehouse' or 'library' of *.txt conv card files somewhere in BBO that could be used as 'templates'? For example, say John Doe/Billy Joe play 2/1 with Bergen and weak NT, they can file their conv card *.txt file in the library for others to download OR they can peruse the library for a conv card of similar type and use as a template for their partnership in tournament play. People that are interested in getting new conv cards, can simply peruse the library for conv cards of interests, and use them as templates. (fyi - i was considering implementing a conv card library on the abalucy website as a repository for club members, and others, to retrieve conv cards however i think if BBO would have central storage place it would be much more useful and flexible for this purpose).

2) Would it be possible in some way to flag or annotate, perhaps alongside a partnerships name or even small box somewhere on the UI of table, that discloses a partnerships general approach and carding. Perhaps a small box somewhere visible for EVERYONE to see that would say "Partnership: John/Billy; Standard Approach: 2/1; Carding: Std; Leads: 2/4". Perhaps this is a little ambitious, however as a tournament director and occasional player in tourneys, this would solve MANY PROBLEMS!

Regards,
Michael A Lucy

[etherwiz]

First off what you want as a special bidding box is availible (in larger form) as convention card. That can be pre loaded so you can one for each partner you play with. Also, in my mind, the convention card does not have to be entirely filled out/ Just filling in the highlights of what you use would be better then nothing.

In an ind tournament I am lucky that my partner will even say 5 card major. I usually read thier card and if I can not play it I type "My Card P?", if I can I say "Your Card P!". Then the opps know which card to read. Problem is when partnered with a non-english speaking and their card is in thier language,

Definately do NOT type "Standard" to anyone with a French Flag. French Standard is considerably different from what the USA calls standard.

So quick easy greetings with your system might be miss-interpted and have drastic results. But there has to be some "standard" way to communicate to your partner an your opps how you are going to play this hand/ The people that figuare that out will be the most consistant high placers (and you do notice who always cones in the first ten spots or so. I know this has made me look for thouse names and then I will spend a couple tournaments just following them around and noticing how they greet their partners each round !

_*_Dave

[keylime]

Disclosure is always a thorny issue. Case in point:

My lovely pard makes a third seat light opening. We're talking super light. At least it was natural. The opps get to 3NT, I make my normal lead. We set it three because the heart suit was exactly what the doctor ordered. The opps called the director claiming foul because she started life in 3rd seat short of a full opener. I said that they didn't read the CC we always post with the following warning:

"HCP are guidelines - players have latitude to deviate from published norms as bid/play warrants."

This is to PREVENT opponents from crying foul!

[inquiry]

I kibitzed the hand in question. The third seat opener was less than stellar... but completely legal even WITHOUT such a note on the convention card. The hand was...

Scoring: IMP

Pass-Pass-???

---

The topic of light third seat opening bids have been discussed recently in another thread. http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/...?showtopic=2105 This one is on par with the ones discussed there.. of course, Keylime's partner is "protected" by the fact that he did not open and they play precision and open some very light hands. So she knows he is not going to do too rash a bid here, and if he does, they will have the LOTT protection of at least a nine card fit.

I like to open light in third seat, I have no "special warning" about the clown seat bids (see luis's clown seat strikes again post), but with this hand vul, I think I would have passed. But if you look at the hands, the ONLY lead that can break 3NT is a ♥ from a doubleton by this hands partner. The third seat opening with this hand is tatical for "The LEAD" and here it worked exactly as designed. Tough luck for your opponents, your partners bid worked out perfectly. Call the director? Hogwash. They went down when you partner was weaker than she could be...what do they want, another ace or so in her hand?

[luke warm]

some of the replies i read are almost beyond comprehension.. there is absolutely *no* reason for anyone to refuse to explain a bid, be it in a tournament or other setting...

if someone asks what a bid means, answer.. and do it as quickly as possible

[luke warm]

inquiry, on Feb 10 2004, 11:38 PM, said:

~~snipThe hand was...~~~

Scoring: IMP

Pass-Pass-???

---

vulnerable or not, i might open that 2♥.. then again, i might get ripped

[Free]

Even 3♥ when NV vs V

[keylime]

For the record, my pard ALMOST opened this grand hand 2♥!!

[JRG]

luke warm, on Feb 11 2004, 02:33 AM, said:

some of the replies i read are almost beyond comprehension.. there is absolutely *no* reason for anyone to refuse to explain a bid, be it in a tournament or other setting...

if someone asks what a bid means, answer.. and do it as quickly as possible

Finally someone stated the obvious. IF you are playing bridge, regardless of whether it is a pickup game at someone's house, the bridge club, a tournament, or online, the opponent's have the right to full disclosure. Otherwise, as someone else said, it is not bridge, but some other game.

I come to BBO to play bridge, not some other game.

There are two things I do agree with though:

1. If you TRULY have no agreement (and don't expect partner to be able to guess -- "Hmm, we are playing 2/1, that sounds like it should be Unusual 2NT), then clearly you don't have to alert and it is quite proper to say "We have no agreement" (I don't like the "we haven't discussed", because an agreement to play, for example Jacoby 2NT, without going into the details, implies you think that each other will be on the same wavelength).

2. Yes, there is a problem with pickup partnerships -- but exactly the same thing can happen at the bridge club or even finding a partner at the partnership desk of a tournament. That is NOT an excuse for failure to alert. However, it does mean that an honest answer might be "we haven't played before and simply decided to play SAYC with no other discussion". I'm a strong believer in taking a minute or two before starting to play to discuss at least which conventions are to be played (though without a lot of detail). When playing with a regular partner, I invite the opponents to do so. I find it bizarre that some of them don't take advantage of the opportunity.

[ehhh]

What we are discussing here is sportsmanship. To NOT disclose fully or worst to deceive what an agreement means is contradictory to the principals of active ethics. Between partnerships this is unforgiving. In individual tournys leaway is the norm and "we have no agreement" is a viable response.