[ArcLight]

How do you bid this:


♠ A K x x
♥ x x
♦ A Q J x
♣ A x x

You open 1♦, pard responds 1♥.

Do you bid 2NT (showing 18 - 19) or 1♠?

If you bid 1♦-1♥, 2NT - pard can still bid 3♠ with 4 or them

[kenrexford]

Normally, I'm a 2NT rebidder. This might tempt me to make exception, as my Aces-and-spaces holdings suggest that partner may be better positioned to declare. The risk is declaring 1♠, but the same Aces-and-spaces suggest that 1♠, if passed, may be right.

[ochinko]

1♠ from me. It doesn't deny 18-19 points, and leaves all our options open. Spades are my strongest suit, hiding them can't be a winner in the long term.

And even though my hand is the stronger one in our line, I prefer partner to be declarer in NT.

I don't expect any of my partners to announce that they have three spades if I had denied having four of them.

[helene_t]

After 2N, partner must use NMF or some such with 4-4 majors since 3♠ would imply 5 hearts.

With an unpassed p, I would certainly rebid 2N since I must adhere to the system in case p is slamish. True, 1♠ may not deny 18 points and it may not promise five diamonds but I do think it denies this particular hand. Opposite a passed hand I have some sympathy for 1♠ but I would still bid 2N.

[FrancesHinden]

There is no one answer to this question, it's a matter of style.

Systemically, if I have a balanced hand (and 4432 is certainly balanced) I bid it like a balanced hand.

I either open 1NT, if in range, or I open 1 of my systemic 4-card suits (1D playing a 5CM system) and rebid in NT. With a balanced 18-19 I rebid 2NT.

As a consequence, openeing 1D and rebidding 1S is either precisely 4=1=4=4 or has at least five diamonds (and because I open 1D with 4-4 in the minors, opening 1C and rebidding 1S always has at least five clubs).

[FrancesHinden]

helene_t, on Jul 17 2007, 01:46 PM, said:

After 2N, partner must use NMF or some such with 4-4 majors since 3♠ would imply 5 hearts.

Umm, no. You can of course agree to play all sorts of methods (Wolff sign-off, NMF, transfers.....) after a 2NT rebid. Whatever method you play will affect the meaning of other bids.

However, if you have not agreed anything special, then

1D - 1H - 2NT -

3C = natural and forcing (may have longer clubs than hearts)
3D = natural and forcing
3H = natural and forcing, 5+ hearts, may have 4 spades
3S = natural and forcing, 4-4 in the majors

With 4-5 in the majors as responder, you'd rather bid 3H over 2NT so allowing partner to declarer the 4-4 spade fit.

[awm]

I like to bid 1♠ here, but of course it's a matter of partnership style. Partner has to know not to pass 1♠ with intermediate hands (like say 8-9 points) and that 1♠ doesn't promise an unbalanced hand.

There are a lot of advantages to 1♠ here -- not the least of which is that 2NT is a kind of silly partial to be playing. You also have more room to develop the auction when partner has a good hand, and on this particular set of cards you are likely to get an eventual 3NT right-sided.

[BebopKid]

I'd much rather play in spades if partner is 4-4 in the majors. Best way to find out right here is to bid 1♠. Partner's next bid will give you more info on their hand.

[jillybean]

awm, on Jul 17 2007, 09:02 AM, said:

I like to bid 1♠ here, but of course it's a matter of partnership style. Partner has to know not to pass 1♠ with intermediate hands (like say 8-9 points) and that 1♠ doesn't promise an unbalanced hand.

So, you play 1♠ is forcing here unless partner is min.
As opener, with a min hand would you otherwsie respond 1nt (nf) ? (edit)

[pclayton]

2N is our style. It does not deny 4♠ or 3♥.

The problem we have found is that when opener bids diamond and spades, and eventually support hearts, is that responder tends to play opener for longer diamonds.

Don't ask me why.

[mikeh]

pclayton, on Jul 17 2007, 01:50 PM, said:

2N is our style. It does not deny 4♠ or 3♥.

The problem we have found is that when opener bids diamond and spades, and eventually support hearts, is that responder tends to play opener for longer diamonds.

Don't ask me why.

Because that is precisely the way you'd bid a 4=3=5=1 hand?

Indeed, adding clarity to the auctions where you DO rebid 1♠ is a good reason to rebid 2N with this hand-type.

Personally, I like transfers over 2N rebids, and in my preferred method, we transfer into 3♥ (a mandatory transfer since we respond light and responder may be dying over there) and then bid 3♠ on 4=5+, and transfer into spades with 4=4 (opener accepts the transfer only with 4 spades, otherwise bids 3N or cues beyond 3N to show maximal acceptance) but there are a number of approaches of varying degrees of utility and complexity.

I suppose my imp bias comes through here, but I like bidding games and I love bidding slams and allowing opener to differentiate between balanced and unbalanced hands early sure helps in that regard... so I reach the occasional 2N, failing, when partner has 4=4 or 4=5 in the majors and can't find a bid over 1♠. Big deal.

[awm]

Elianna and my general rules here are:

(1) With 4333, often rebid notrump at second turn, especially if the values are such that notrump from opener's side is likely to be right. So we will occasionally bypass four spades to rebid 1NT or 2NT over 1m-1♥ with this pattern.

(2) Otherwise always rebid 1♠ with four spades (or 2♠ with GF values). This "almost guarantees" four cards in the original minor but certainly does not show five.

(3) The 1♠ rebid is not forcing, but responder should bid on with a hand that would bid game over a 2NT rebid. So pass is normally 6 points or less (occasionally 7 without a clear call, esp. at MP scoring). We will respond 1♥ pretty light with a five-card heart suit, so something like 4 hcp is a possibility in this auction (and could pass 1♠ if holding three card support).

(4) We play a conventional fourth suit call in the auction 1X-1Y-1Z-1NT. This allows us to distinguish between (for example) good and bad "heart preference" auctions and good and bad raises to 2NT. It does mean we can't rebid and play in 2♣ when holding a minimum 4144 or 4054 on the auction 1♦-1♥-1♠-1nt, but I've found that this sort of action has very mixed results in any case and 1NT is often a decent resting spot. We can still get to clubs when opener has extras.

There are a lot of advantages to rebidding 1♠ in this auction that may not be immediately apparent. Besides the fact that 1♠ is often a better partial than 2NT when responder has trash, we are more likely to find game when responder has a weakish hand with 4-5 or 4-6 in the majors that would pass (or signoff in hearts) over a 2NT rebid. It's easier to get out in opener's minor on non-game hands where responder is weak (over 1♣-1♥-2NT, most play 3♣ forcing, but we can bid 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♣-2nt-3♣). It's easier to right-side notrump contracts that play better from responder's side, which can win IMPs when game makes for us and not the other way. We can sensibly explore for stoppers on some hands (i.e. 1♣-1♥-1♠-3♣ and it's clear diamonds are the problem suit, versus 1♣-1♥-1♠-2NT-3NT?) We get to start our auction lower on certain slam sequences (for example, compare 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠ as slam try in spades against 1♣-1♥-2NT-3♠ where we are one level higher and spades aren't even clearly agreed yet).

Basically, if you would rebid 1♠ with a minimum balanced hand, I see little to no disadvantage to also bidding 1♠ with a strong balanced hand. If you normally bypass spades to bid notrump, this obviously has its own strengths and weaknesses, and you have to do the same thing with the "big notrump" that you do with the "little notrump." I've found it much better to bid my suits, and the style where 1♠ rebid promises four in the minor and could be balanced is popular among (for example) the top Italian players.

[P_Marlowe]

1S.

Switch the Queen / Jack of Diamonds with some
low card, and I would try 2NT, which would burry
the spades in my partnership.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[skjaeran]

Playing standard methods, this is a clear 2NT rebid for me. (In real life, the bidding would go 1♣-1♦ with my regular partner, and I'd rebid 2NT showing 18-19 balanced with exactly a doubleton ♥).

As Mike, I prefer transfers after the 2NT rebid. Without any agreements (or expected understanding) I'd expect partner to bid exactly as Frances proposed above).

[ochinko]

I agree with everyone that the choice between 1♠ and 2NT is above all a matter of partnership style.

But if your systemic bid is 2NT don't you at least consider making an exception here? It is likely we belong in NT, there is no high card to protect in our hand, but the same is not at all certain about partner's hand.

[mikeh]

ochinko, on Jul 17 2007, 04:50 PM, said:

I agree with everyone that the choice between 1♠ and 2NT is above all a matter of partnership style.

But if your systemic bid is 2NT don't you at least consider making an exception here? It is likely we belong in NT, there is no high card to protect in our hand, but the same is not at all certain about partner's hand.

I wouldn't.

While I appreciate the positional implications of our 'pure' hand, it is far more important, to me, to describe, as accurately as possible, my hand type: which is balanced, 2-3 card fit, 18-19 hcp.

If I bid 1♠.... just what do I do next?

Sure, if he bids 1N, I have an easy 3N.

But if he makes any other bid, my next bid will be a lie with respect to my shape... and I see no compelling reason to lie about that often-critical aspect of my hand in what I hope is a constructive dialogue: a dialogue in which partner plays a large and often controlling role at some point.

I am NOT going to show 5+ diamonds, nor am I going to show ♣ length I don't own... and many of the sequences after 1♠ will show one or the other.

If we have slam, and our slam expectations are quite high so far, then it probably doesn't matter which hand declares, and on some layouts, it may be advantageous for me to declare... especially if I have not shown spade length.

[Walddk]

I think you should bypass a major every time you have a balanced hand, so I would have no problem with 2NT here. The continuation Frances suggested is excellent and exactly what I and many others teach students here.

Rebidding 1♠ (may or may not be a balanced hand) creates some problems with a hand like this:

♠ KJ54
♥ Q108
♦ Q87
♣ AJ4

1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
2♥

This sounds like a 4-3-1-5 hand to me, and as responder I would be very disappointed to find a 4333 in dummy. As opener I would feel much more comfortable if it goes

1♣ - 1♥
1NT

Roland

[ArcLight]

Lets say this is the hand:

You open 1 Club with

♠A Q 9 8
♥ K 9
♦Q 8 4
♣A K J 2

pard responds 1 Diamond.
Whats your bid? 1♠ or 2NT?

I get the impression the best bid is 2NT. If pard has a 4 card Spade suit and accepts the game, he can bid 3 Spades on the way to 3NT or 4 Spades.
Pard might be less likely to pass with 6 HCP (6+19 = 25).


What do you think of this bidding:
1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 2♣
2NT (showing 18-19) - 3NT


Over the 2♣ bid, 2NT can't be a minimum, because you would pass otherwise.

[pclayton]

ArcLight, on Jul 17 2007, 04:17 PM, said:

Lets say this is the hand:

You open 1 Club with

♠A Q 9 8
♥ K 9
♦Q 8 4
♣A K J 2

pard responds 1 Diamond.
Whats your bid? 1♠ or 2NT?

I get the impression the best bid is 2NT. If pard has a 4 card Spade suit and accepts the game, he can bid 3 Spades on the way to 3NT or 4 Spades.
Pard might be less likely to pass with 6 HCP (6+19 = 25).


What do you think of this bidding:
1♣ - 1♦
1♠ - 2♣
2NT (showing 18-19) - 3NT


Over the 2♣ bid, 2NT can't be a minimum, because you would pass otherwise.

If you play any Walsh-type structure, the best rebid by far is 2N. Pard denies a 4 card major unless he has a good hand, and we'll hear about it over 2N.

If you play an up-the-line style, I think this hand correlates with the original hand - people seem to want to get the notion across that this hand is strong and balanced, versus the idea that the hand has 4 spades.