[Winstonm]

mike777, on Jul 12 2007, 12:44 AM, said:

Winstonm, on Jul 10 2007, 09:29 PM, said:

Quote

U.S. sending third aircraft carrier to the Middle East

Associated Press
Tuesday, July 10, 2007

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates: The United States is sending a third aircraft carrier to the Middle East, the U.S. Navy said Tuesday in a move that bolstered U.S. military capability at a time of tension with Iran and stepped-up operations in Iraq.

Will there be war with Iran?

btw my local newspaper says we are not sending a third carrier group. Is this typical misinformation by our great media? My small, local, paper says this is a replacement group?

Please reconfirm your facts or just say you hate Bush and anything he may do please.

I note even if this was a third group on station, no one, I repeat no one said, yes, well done.

For those who think bush is trying to stay on past his term limit, please explain how?

At first I was really really angry with the insult to our military, after I cooled off I saw all or almost all seemed to be non usa who may not know how the system works.

The first article I read stated that a third carrier was being sent. Much later, I saw another article that said that by the end of summer there would only be one carrier in those waters.

Yes, it would good to know whether this is a build up or reduction.

[Winstonm]

Quote

Please reconfirm your facts or just say you hate Bush and anything he may do please.

I note even if this was a third group on station, no one, I repeat no one said, yes, well done.

For those who think bush is trying to stay on past his term limit, please explain how?

At first I was really really angry with the insult to our military

1. No, I do not hate Bush. I mistrust Bush and his judgement. You are welcome. I strongly disagree with Bush/Cheney/Gonzales concepts of the unitary executive - my conflicts with this administration are philosophical. I also disagree with actions taken when I feel the action was based on that philosophy.

2. There should be no surprise that no one said "well done". Polls show that 70% of the U.S. believe we are on the wrong course with Iraq.

3. I do not think Bush will attempt to stay past his term; however, all changes to laws and executive orders granting more power to declare presidential superiority should be repealed for the good of the nation and its future. .

4. The commander-in-chief sends - the military responds. How is this something to be riled about? I do not see the insult to the U.S. military unless you are extrapolating the idea of Bush exceeding his term and needing the military's cooperation to do so. I did not see anyone suggesting military cooperation in a coup.

If there is such a power grab, it will not require the military's assistance - it will be the result of a "crisis" and putting into action laws and executive orders that are now in place.

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Jul 12 2007, 02:10 AM, said:

In any case the fact that no usa person seems to have responded teaches me some lesson, just not sure what other than perhaps I should not post and just shut up.

That is exactly what they want you to do, Mike.

When confronted by the facts and reality, and no longer able to justify the "party" line, get back into your bunker "mentality" and hope the boogie man goes away.

Wake up! Look around! You had the greatest country in the world but it was hijacked by a cadre of deliberate and conniving monsters. Did not Cheney tell Norad to stand down regarding flight intercepts during the exercises that were running "as previously scheduled" during 9-11? Did he not order Norad to get his approval before taking action during their practice? Was he not the sole reason why kamikaze airliners were not intercepted by your valiant air-force pilots?

You are in a war, my friend, but it is not Christian against Muslim, it is your freedom versus their domination. Good luck to all of us.

[mycroft]

Putting on my tinfoil hat:

1) Bush won't stay on. There's too little time to organize that (barring another MAJOR terrorist attack, not squibs like the current media darlings, probably not even another of the scale of London July 7. I'm talking the Sears Tower going down, or a successful Aum Shinrikyo-style attack). And anyway, even the Republicans don't want that. And when you lose your Barons Money Base, paper like the Magna Carta Constitution becomes more solid and unavoidable.

2) It *is* important to Bush et al. *personally* that their legal inventions safeguards stay in place for the next four years. By then, the political capital (newsworthiness) that can be made off criminal investigations of the current Administration will have diminished to the point where the Democrats will just take the benefits of the Great Power Grab in exchange for not embarrassing/jailing the Bush Inner Circle when they get in. In other words, they get away with it.

3) At the moment, it is important to the GOP machine that 2) happens, as well, because *right now*, there's enough in removing the shroud of secrecy behind the last 6 years that taking down the people involved would be worth it, politically, in long-term hamstringing the GOP. Again, if they can survive until 2012, their blue-state friends will be happier to just take the power.

Therefore, 4) a War with Iran, if they can work it so that it will keep the presidency Republican for one more term (of course, no Bush, please, we're not British) everything will get nicely swept under the rug, and politics can get back to normal. Plus, they might just be able to get another moderate conservative on the Supreme Court, and lock that sucker up for 15 years or so - also improving the chances that the veil of secrecy over the 2000s will remain.

Please note, I have not mentioned America or The People or Freedom or anything actually important in this screed. That's the truly dis(turb|gust)ing thing about this whole show.

Michael.

[Winstonm]

As I stated above, my differences with current administration and their policies is based on their philosophical beliefs. My gravest concern is that I do not know the depth of their beliefs - meaning I do not know to what extremes they might go to instistute ideologies.

The legal debate is whether the laws passed, executive orders signed, and presidential directives instituted are substantial enough to be the U.S. equivalent to the Enabling Act - and might they be used as such under a false pretense.

[Winstonm]

I find this interesting:

Quote

Poll published in Wall Street Journal shows most Iranians willing to recognize Israel in the frame of agreement to restore relations with US
Yitzhak Benhorin

An overwhelming majority of Iranians, 70 percent, favor normal relations and trade with the United States, a nationwide poll conducted by Terror Free Tomorrow has found.

In return for normal relations with the US, most Iranians were willing to recognize Israel and Palestine as independent states, ending Iranian supports for armed groups in Iraq, and adopt a transparent nuclear policy, Terror Free Tomorrow President Ken Ballen wrote in the Wall Street Journal.

The poll also found that only 29 percent of respondents viewed developing nuclear weapons as a top national priority. By contrast, 88 percent said that improving the Iranian economy was a very important priority.

About 80 percent of those polled said they would allow full inspection of Iran's nuclear activities and vow not to develop nuclear arms in return for foreign aid.

Some 61 percent told Terror Free Tomorrow pollsters by phone that they were opposed to the rule of their supreme leader who rules according to religious laws and can not be replaced by popular vote. About 79 percent said they preferred to have their leaders elected by the people.

Only 11 percent said they were strongly opposed to having their leaders elected by popular vote.

For sake of fairness this today:

Quote

In what officials have said was partly muscle-flexing toward Iran, the Navy has maintained two aircraft carrier battle groups in area since early this year and twice held major exercises in the Gulf.

But the force could be reduced to one carrier in the coming weeks unless one now there is ordered to stay beyond its planned homecoming or another is rescheduled to go there early, three defense officials said Tuesday.

They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to speak on the subject for the record. The military tries to say as little as possible about ship movements for security reasons.

[Al_U_Card]

Sabre rattling at great expense to the US taxpayer....and for what?

[Al_U_Card]

And at the end times there will be war and rumors of war....

An "attack" on the WTC funded by the CIA, abetted by the elite and welcomed by the NWO.....

Remember the "declaration" of the GLOBAL WAR on terror?
W and his puppet-masters are the only ones terrorizing anything.

Wake up.

[helene_t]

There was an article in a Danish newspaper a couple of months ago, written by a journalist who visited a remote village in Eastern Iran. He asked people for who they voted and for whom they would vote next time, and why. The reasons people gave for voting for the present president were socio-economical: Adjamenibad promised to subsidise bread (which is something that matters to poor people), while the progressives just care for the yupees in Teheran who are their core voters. Now the village was split. Some still supported the government while others would vote for progressives which they thought were more competent and less corrupt. Some said they probably would't vote at all.

Nobody mentioned religion, let alone nukes.

[Al_U_Card]

Probably similar to the stats concerning Jenkin's ear.....

[jdeegan]

helene_t, on Jul 13 2007, 05:33 AM, said:

There was an article in a Danish newspaper a couple of months ago, written by a journalist who visited a remote village in Eastern Iran. He asked people for who they voted and for whom they would vote next time, and why. The reasons people gave for voting for the present president were socio-economical: Adjamenibad promised to subsidise bread (which is something that matters to poor people), while the progressives just care for the yupees in Teheran who are their core voters. Now the village was split. Some still supported the government while others would vote for progressives which they thought were more competent and less corrupt. Some said they probably would't vote at all.

Nobody mentioned religion, let alone nukes.

The Iranian revolution in 1979 was similar, in many ways, to the 1917 revolution in Russia. Many of the Iranian upper and upper middle classes fled the new regime - there are now nearly one million Iranians living in the U.S. - mostly in southern California. Support for the new regime is very limited among the more prosperous Iranians, but that is not the political base for the ruling clerics.

The clerics are very wise, and they know a great deal, unhappily, much of what they think they know is not true.

[Fluffy]

Winstonm, on Jul 11 2007, 04:35 AM, said:

I think this is a valid discussion point. My viewpoint is that war is never a lesser evil, especially wars of agression - which is the essence of preemptive warfare.

Preempts work! haven't you read the bridge forums latelly? .

I agree with the one who said (I think it was Peter) that all countries will end up having nukes, its just a matter of time.


I wouldn't be surprised to see anything to keep Bush at power. Even a self-terrorist attack.

[Al_U_Card]

Look at the most recent revelations of the Kissinger-Nixon conversations in the book by Dallek. Henry told Dick that if he "cut and run in '71" it would hurt his chances for re-election in '72.......that remark only cost about 100,000 lives (including about 25,000 americans).

You have no idea in how little esteem and with what little value they consider any of us compared to their megalomaniacal dreams of self-agrandizement.

The NWO perpetuates the ideals of all idealist-elitist secret societies. Only they deserve the power and life.....all else is just inconsequential to their desires.

[Al_U_Card]

jdeegan, on Jul 26 2007, 11:31 PM, said:

The clerics are very wise, and they know a great deal, unhappily, much of what they think they know is not true.

Okay, I'll bite, like what?