[Walddk]

This happened on vugraph earlier today with Sabine Auken (opener) and Zia:

1♥ 4♣* dbl** pass
5♠?

* Natural
** Card showing, typical spades.

What is 5♠ now?

- 1. Asking for trump quality?
- 2. Asking for a club control?

Do you have an agreement with your regular partner?

Roland

[Apollo81]

club control, assuming double showed 4spades

[mikeh]

I have no agreement with any partner. Of course, I have never previously encountered this sequence!


I guess that, when playing with Zia, one can step out with more safety than with most

My guess: AQ10x AKJxx Ax xx or the like: showing great trump and asking for ♣ control.

Why? Because I think 5♣ followed by 5♠ would ask about trump quality.

[Walddk]

Apparently, Sabine and Zia didn't have an agreement either. Zia is usually a quick player, but he was in the tank for 4-5 minutes before he ....

(did the wrong thing).

By the way, what would 4NT and 5♣ have been by opener? One has to to see the 5♠ call in context I think.

Roland

[pclayton]

5♠ feels like a great 5=6=0=2 or the like asking for club help. Perhaps this is simplistic and Justin will say 5♠ = a hand too good for 4♠.

4N for me would just be simple blackwood, but some might treat it as a strong 5♦ bid.

5♣ shows a mountain, and the ability to control the auction. I would expect solid hearts or great spades and a club control.

[awm]

It doesn't seem like there is all that much room for delicate investigation here. If opener's only options are to ask specific questions "how good are your trumps" or "do you have a club control" then there will be a lot of hands where you have no idea what to do and can't ask for help. Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry.

But I know a lot of people like to have a couple narrow asking bids and then just punt a slam when none of those asking bids help, rather than having a general opinion ask. Depends on whether you think: (1) partner has a good memory, but bad judgement or (2) partner has good judgement, but a bad memory.

[Apollo81]

awm, on Jun 18 2007, 03:58 PM, said:

Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry.

i also play:

4NT = RKC
5♣...5♠ = please bid six if you like


that seems to handle all the cases

[cherdano]

I would expect a general slam invitation.

[mike777]

I would have guessed asking for second or first round control in clubs, agree spades.

If opener has club control and hearts and spades, I would expect her to start with 5clubs.
With less simply rebid 4H or 4s or pass 4clubs.

btw what is 4nt here in an expert pickup partnership?

[DrTodd13]

In my regular partnerships it is asking if pd has two fast club losers.

[Walddk]

Scoring: IMP

---

1♥ 4♣ dbl pass
5♠?

Sabine felt she was too good for 4♠ and intended her 5♠ as a general slam try. Zia tanked for 4-5 minutes, consulted the ceiling and floor, couldn't find anything useful and eventually raised to slam. He was hoping that Auken had something like

♠AKQx ♥AKJxxx ♦x ♣xx

and all she was looking for was a club control.

North holding ♠AK had a feeling that they wouldn't have a better place to play, so he doubled. However, despite this disaster the Emre (Zia) team won comprehensively in this R32 match but later lost in the Round of 16.

Russia v RIOLO (Fantoni) will be our quarter-final match on vugraph this morning.

Roland

[mike777]

Walddk, on Jun 19 2007, 12:50 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

1♥ 4♣ dbl pass
5♠?

Sabine felt she was too good for 4♠ and intended her 5♠ as a general slam try. Zia tanked for 4-5 minutes, consulted the ceiling and floor, couldn't find anything useful and eventually raised to slam. He was hoping that Auken had something like

♠AKQx ♥AKJxxx ♦x ♣xx

and all she was looking for was a club control.

North holding ♠AK had a feeling that they wouldn't have a better place to play, so he doubled. However, despite this disaster the Emre (Zia) team won comprehensively in this R32 match but later lost in the Round of 16.

Russia v RIOLO (Fantoni) will be our quarter-final match on vugraph this morning.

Roland

I guess bidding 4d was not an option?

[jdonn]

mike777, on Jun 19 2007, 01:34 AM, said:

I guess bidding 4d was not an option?

Nope.

[mike777]

jdonn, on Jun 19 2007, 01:48 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 19 2007, 01:34 AM, said:

I guess bidding 4d was not an option?

Nope.

over 4c? ok...but why not?

[jdonn]

You give up on defending 4♣X, and playing in a 4-4 spade fit since partner is almost never good enough for 4♠ over 4♦. And all for what gain?

[Fluffy]

awm, on Jun 18 2007, 07:58 PM, said:

Seems more useful at this level of bidding to just play 5♠ = "if your hand is suitable for slam please bid six" rather than some specific inquiry.

I would had taken it this way also.

[mikeh]

mike777, on Jun 19 2007, 01:50 AM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 19 2007, 01:48 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 19 2007, 01:34 AM, said:

I guess bidding 4d was not an option?

Nope.

over 4c? ok...but why not?

edit

[FrancesHinden]

I would also have taken 5S as just saying "I'm too good to bid 4S", but in particular it must have at least 5-6 in the majors, as responder hasn't guaranteed 4 spades on the auction.

As for do I have an agreement - not for this particular auction as written, but we have a general agreement that strong jumps to 5M in competitive auctions after opposition pre-emptiong are general slam tries unless specifically agreed otherwise.

p.s. I don't think 4D over 4C would have been insane given the Q10 of hearts, but double will often end the auction opposite a weak NT-type hand which is probably what you want.

[skjaeran]

FrancesHinden, on Jun 19 2007, 08:25 PM, said:

I would also have taken 5S as just saying "I'm too good to bid 4S", but in particular it must have at least 5-6 in the majors, as responder hasn't guaranteed 4 spades on the auction.

As for do I have an agreement - not for this particular auction as written, but we have a general agreement that strong jumps to 5M in competitive auctions after opposition pre-emptiong are general slam tries unless specifically agreed otherwise.

p.s. I don't think 4D over 4C would have been insane given the Q10 of hearts, but double will often end the auction opposite a weak NT-type hand which is probably what you want.

Absolutely agree.