[kgr]

Suppose you play Lebensohl after a reverse like 1C-1H-2D-
Do you also play it after responder has limited his hand with a non forcing 1NT?

Thanks,
Koen

[helene_t]

Good question.

My guess is not.

In the specific sequence you mention there may even be a case for playing 2♦ non-forcing since responder will often have four diamonds. But that's non-standard, of course.

[FrancesHinden]

It's a matter of agreement.
The default is not, but you can of course agree differently.

After 1minor - 1NT - 2-level reverse there isn't much need to play lebensohl, because responder has already strongly limited his hand with the 1NT response, and a natural 2NT is a useful bid. In particular, there really seems no point after 1C - 1NT - 2D because responder can bid 2M with a good hand and a feature in the major. Even after 1m - 1NT - 2H responder can bid 2S as a 'lurk' with a good hand and keep 2NT as natural, weak, stops in the other two suits.

The specific sequence 1H - 1NT - 2S is a little different, where playing 2/1 the 1NT bid is very wide range (even playing SA it's fairly wide range). I play in two regular partnerships: in one of them we play semi-forcing 1NT response and play 2NT as lebensohl because responder's range is roughly 4-12 and some definition is very helpful. In the other one we play Acol style 2/1 responses where 2m is basically 9+; the 1NT bid is already strongly limited to, say, 5-8 and we don't play lebensohl. Responder also has the option of raising 2S to 3S with a good hand (in context) and poor minor suit cards for NT.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

yes I would, for simplicity reasons,
but I play a forcing NT, so the answers
may not count for anything.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kgr]

What about?:
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H: forcing???
 
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H-2NT: minimum
 
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H-2D: min, D support
 
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H-3H: max, 3cH
 
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H-3C: 5+card C, forcing???
 
1D-1NT(not forcing)-2H-2S: max, no good bid??

[mcphee]

The purpose of Lebensohl (ingberman) is to DEFINE your values to the hand that reverses in order to avoid over reaching. When the range of the 1NT response can be quite wide, say 5 at times 4 to 10 it seems to be a tool that has value. I see no reason not to use it when it will help you.

As for people who use 1NT forcing there is only one place where the reverse can take place, when partner opens 1H and it still makes a heap of sense to me.

[cherdano]

I still like to play Ingberman in this situation. I am not sure a limit of 6-10(bad 11) helps so much opposite a reverse, as this is still ranging from a clear sign-off to a clear game force.

[pclayton]

It doesnt matter much, as long as its defined. By the way - you should clarify if 2N is the slow-down call or if its the reverse + 1.

Its pointless after 1C - 1N - reverse, because the 1N call is very narrowly defined.

Theres a little use for it after 1D - 1N - reverse because responder might have a string of clubs (recall xx xx xx QJTxxx in the other thread).

Its very useful after 1H - 1N - 2S because there are many hands that responder can hold.