[ArcLight]

jtfanclub, on Jun 15 2007, 11:47 AM, said:

ArcLight, on Jun 15 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

Its not a trick question, I said total points (includes distribution) not HCP.

I've never seen somebody include two points for a singleton in partner's suit and no fit as yet.

So what do you do with, say

Axx
x
AJx
AKJxxx

That's too strong, apparently, to bid 3♣ with.

Keep in mind, since you're required to have at least 2 points of distribution to bid 3♣, you're saying that 3♣ shows basically 13-16 hcp.

Its not 2 HCP for a singleton, its 2 for the extra Club length 6 card suit. 6-4 = 2.

Total points = HCP + length



Axx
x
AJx
AKJxxx

This is a Reverse to 2♦. If the J was stiff I'd treat it as 0 and just bid 3♣



>>Keep in mind, since you're required to have at least 2 points of distribution to bid 3♣, you're saying that 3♣ shows basically 13-16 hcp.

No I'm not. You are misunderstanding.
3♣ shows 16-18 total points, just as I said. Thats probably in the range of 14/15 - 17

[jtfanclub]

ArcLight, on Jun 15 2007, 11:58 AM, said:

Its not 2 HCP for a singleton, its 2 for the extra Club length 6 card suit. 6-4 = 2.

Total points = HCP + length
.
.
.

No I'm not. You are misunderstanding.
3♣ shows 16-18 total points, just as I said. Thats probably in the range of 14/15 - 17

If total points = HCP + Length (2 points for a 6 card suit)

And

If 3♣ shows 16-18 total points and 6+ clubs,

Then 3♣ shows 14-16 hcp with 6 clubs, and less with longer clubs.

I don't know anybody who plays that. It's an entertaining thought, because it means that the upper limit for a 3♣ bid is just below the lower limit for a reverse. However, it puts you at the 3 level without a fit and about half the points in the deck if partner was a normal minimum response. Not one of my favorite places to be.

[ArcLight]

jtfanclub, on Jun 15 2007, 12:14 PM, said:

ArcLight, on Jun 15 2007, 11:58 AM, said:

Its not 2 HCP for a singleton, its 2 for the extra Club length 6 card suit.  6-4 = 2.

Total points = HCP + length
.
.
.

No I'm not.  You are misunderstanding.
3♣ shows 16-18 total points, just as I said.  Thats probably in the range of 14/15 - 17

If total points = HCP + Length (2 points for a 6 card suit)

And

If 3♣ shows 16-18 total points and 6+ clubs,

Then 3♣ shows 14-16 hcp with 6 clubs, and less with longer clubs.

I don't know anybody who plays that. It's an entertaining thought, because it means that the upper limit for a 3♣ bid is just below the lower limit for a reverse. However, it puts you at the 3 level without a fit and about half the points in the deck if partner was a normal minimum response. Not one of my favorite places to be.

You find it "entertaining"?

Thats what Fred Gitelmans software says. (on the ACBL web page)

A Medium Opener (16-18 total points) = jump rebid of the same suit
It guarantees 6 cards.
Total points = HCP + length points

This is from his example:
1♣ - 1♥
3♣

♠ A x
♥ x x
♦A 9 8
♣A Q J T 8 x

15 HCP + 2 length = 17


>"I don't know anybody who plays that."

Then Fred must be wrong. Good thing I have you to set me straight.


I suggest you tell Fred he doesn't understand fundamental bidding. I'm sure he will find your opinion "entertaining"

[jtfanclub]

ArcLight, on Jun 15 2007, 12:39 PM, said:

You find it "entertaining"?

Yes, as in agreeably amusing or diverting.

1♣-1M

2♣= 11-13 hcp
3♣= 14-16 hcp
Reverse= 17+ hcp

I kind of like the idea. I'll have to think about it.

But I don't know anybody who actually plays it that weak, cf. other people's posts in this thread.

[foo]

A little tighter.

Open 1suit and rebid 3suit w/
a= 6 cards in suit and 15-17 working HCP
b= 7 cards in suit and 14-16 working HCP
c= 8 cards in suit and 13-15 working HCP.

Personally I do not think ♠x♥Qx♦AJxx♣AKJxxx is worth a 3♣ rebid after 1♣-1♠;??
The ♥Q is most likely waste paper.

Even after 1♣-1♥; ?? I think a 3♣ rebid is a bit on the optimistic side, but I don't object to this anywhere near as much as I do to some of the other possibilities presented in this thread.