[neilkaz]

♣This is the B/I forum so lets keep things simple. However, I highly recommend learning at least a basic unusual over Michaels and Unusual over Unusual.

Now with this hand, if you bid 4NT over the Michaels I'd sure take it as RKC or regular Blackwood. for ♣ and hopefully 0314 so that when an aceless opening PD rebids 5♣ you just pass and if he shows an ace I'll take a shot at 6♣ and if he shows both aces, I can bid 5NT or better yet Q bid something below 5NT and hope he carries us to a grand when correct.

Kickback and/or Minorwood make it significantly easier to find Minor Suit slams, and I am surprised they aren't more mainstream.

Lacking any gadgets, I just bid a quick 6♣ noting that the opps may bid rather high here and I may not find out what I need to know inspite of the vul.

.. neilkaz ..

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies, What I am ‘giving up’ is trying to post these questions in the appropriate forums. I am not giving up bridge or posting on forums It is frustrating making the same mistakes repeatedly and I am often disappointed with my level of ability. However, I do think I have improved when it comes to knowing whose advice to take and I think that advice is top notch – thank you.

On this hand, even if I had cue bid it would have still been a guessing game. I do not have an unusual vs. unusual bid and I wouldn’t want to introduce it in my casual partnerships. Maybe this is something I could work on with Richard.

jb

[jillybean]

Oh, the hand!

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♣    2♣    Dbl
 2♥    Pass  Pass  5♣
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[blackshoe]

goobers, on Jun 11 2007, 12:58 PM, said:

Okay, I've heard kickback all over the place, and I have no idea what it is.

It looks like some form of keycard... how exactly does it operate?

When you bid RKCB, the answers can be expressed in 4 steps:

1: 0 or 3 keycards (or 1 or 4, see below)
2: 1 or 4 keycards (or 0 or 3)
3: 2 keycards, no trump queen or extra length (with a 10 card fit, you don't need the queen)
4: 2 keycards and the trump queen.

When you use 4NT as the only RKCB ask, the fourth step is 5♠. This works fine when spades are trumps, but when any lower ranking suit is trumps, you potentially get forced to the six level by replier's answer. The problem gets worse as the trump suit ranks lower.

1430: Eddie Kantar proposed this as a solution to the problem, at least when hearts are trumps. Doesn't work with a minor, but Kantar had other ideas for that, some of which are fairly complex.

Kickback solves all problems by one simple agreement: the keycard ask is the denomination above trump. When spades are trump, it's 4NT. When hearts are trump, it's 4♠. When diamonds are trump, it's 4♥, and when clubs are trump, it's 4♦. Simple, elegant, and solves the problem for all trump suits.

Some people don't like it, being concerned about possible problems when the previous auction makes the ask suit a possible place to play, for example after 1♠-2♥-3♥-4♠. The simplest way to deal with this is just to agree that Kickback takes precedence.

LOL! I missed Mike's previous answer.

[blackshoe]

Interesting. I'm not sure even Kickback helps here. Suppose the bidding goes 1♣-2♣-4♦-5♣. Partner has told you he has two aces and the ♣Q, so you have all the keycards and the queen. Is that enough? You have five losers, and partner has shown you 3 cover cards. You need to know if he has a side king, or a singleton in a pointy suit, but if you ask, and he doesn't have it, you're down 1 in 6♣.

I think we have to find another way.

[whereagles]

6♣ for me too.

[jillybean]

whereagles, on Jun 12 2007, 03:35 AM, said:

6♣ for me too.

oh me too

[P_Marlowe]

hrothgar, on Jun 11 2007, 01:30 PM, said:

<snip>
Marlowe:

I was playing with Kathryn when this board came up. 

If she had bid 4♣ I would have assumed that she had a preemptive club raise.

Hi,

regarding the meaning of the 4C bid, do we talk
about different auctions?

You about

#1 1C - (2C) - 4C ...

and I about

#2 1C - (2C) - X - (2H)
Pass - (Pass) - 4C

I would agree that 4C in auction 1 is weak,
but I believe 4C in auction 2 it is clearly forcing,
at least in my opionion, ... I know I am sometimes
off base.
Of course if you assume partner did have a cue
available, ... oh well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[vuroth]

PMarlowe said:

#2 1C    - (2C)  - X  - (2H)
    Pass - (Pass) - 4C

I would agree that 4C in auction 1 is weak,
but I believe 4C in auction 2 it is clearly forcing,
at least in my opionion

As a novice, I concur. Double then 4C sounds like you believe we have a shot at 6C.

As a novice, an immediate 2H or 2S would probably be recognized as artificial and strong, but without some sort of an agreement, I really wouldn't know what exactly the bid meant. I'd probably just describe my hand, and let partner drive to whatever contract we're headed towards.

0.02

V

[Apollo81]

It's reasonable to just bid Blackwood/RKC/whatever on your first/second/whatever call with this hand.